Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In My Opinion, The only reason for feeding ASF Rats is for imports or troubled feeders....

That being said, Why do i notice so many people feeding ASFs???

Does this not make it harder to sell because not everyone has access to ASFs???

Personally, I will not buy a snake that has been fed 1 ASF... What are your thoughts???
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Don Antiel
www.specialtyreptile.com

In My Opinion, The only reason for feeding ASF Rats is for imports or troubled feeders....
Agreed

That being said, Why do i notice so many people feeding ASFs??? I dunno

Does this not make it harder to sell because not everyone has access to ASFs???
You would think so.

Personally, I will not buy a snake that has been fed 1 ASF... What are your thoughts???
I wouldn't want to, but not a complete deal breaker, for the right male.

I switched all my snakes from normal rats to asfs this year, i find the snakes put more of the rat to use, i find much less poop and when there is it is much smaller size. They seem to feed more regularly on asf's. Yes not everyone can get them, but for me, i havent had any problems selling any of my babies that have only eaten asf, just because they eat asf now doesnt mean they cant eat something else, but in my own experience i havent had any issues going from asf's to mice, or norway rats. i guess imo asf's just seem to be a better choice for me, but like i said im just a little guy that breeds for fun, i dont have to worry about needing to get babies out the door asap, although that being said as well, i havent had any babies for much more than a month before being sold or traded, and yes anyone i sell to is informed that i feed asf's. Asf feeders do seem to be on the rise (that i have noticed) over the past couple years, it may just be that more people are starting to readily breed asf's and its becoming another food option for those who like them.

I agree with this. No problems converting even seasoned ASF feeders to Norway rats or mice. Among many other benefits the ASFs provide.
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25 year old 0.1 from Lincoln, NE
Ball Pythons - 0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly, 2.1 Normals
Kingsnakes - 1.0 L. m. thayeri, 0.1 L. m. thayeri X L. alterna, 1.0 L. g. californiae
Other - 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 1.0 H. nascicus, ?.? Chrysemys picta, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

N/P

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http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff495/Tat2darin/

I love asf, they eat and drink less, the smell is way better than mice or rats. And yes, problem feeders love em. I start all my babies on them and almost all switch right over to rats. There will always be good feeder balls and problem feeder balls, personally I don't think our actions can cause or prevent that. Feed them what you want to feed, if that doesnt work, feed em what they want!
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http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff495/Tat2darin/

africans have 17 babies every 23 days...they grow fast and don't smell.....balls grow fast on them and actually love them...

that being said....

I didn't use them except for trouble feeders and people were told that they were eating africans- and why......and sold to them cheaply....they usually then would force feed them mice and complain to themselves it didn't eat....till it would eat mice in 4 months...even though it was eating voluntarily...only africans...or white footed mice....or hamsters....they were usually offered colonies of breeding stuff...which they never took...

so...you are correct...yet africans will be used because they are fast multipliers... and loved by balls....

....buy rat eaters ....there are more balls then buyers...

have fun....
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........JY

I feed almost exclusively ASFs because I have a large colony of them. However, even my BPs will take a Mouse or a Rat just as quick. I had a strict mouser that got converted over to Rats because of ASFs. So far, no "stuck" problems, where the snakes will only eat one species.

As a feeder, I love to keep them compared to mice and rats. They are easier to clean up after, do not smell nearly as much, breed prolifically, and will eat anything and convert it into large, happy babies. They've never gotten diseases I have seen in mice or rats, such as wet tail, tumors, herpes, or one of the variety of skin flaking diseases. I attribute this to their relatively recent introduction to captivity.
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25 year old 0.1 from Lincoln, NE
Ball Pythons - 0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly, 2.1 Normals
Kingsnakes - 1.0 L. m. thayeri, 0.1 L. m. thayeri X L. alterna, 1.0 L. g. californiae
Other - 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 1.0 H. nascicus, ?.? Chrysemys picta, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I have and will gladly provide breeding stock to anyone who asks. If they are looking for more than a 1:3 group I will probably charge, but just enough to cover their food to grow them out. I have carefully cultivated my own breeding stock from lines all over the country to ensure lots of genetic diversity. So a small group could easily be expanded to a large colony if someone desired.

All in all, I think ASFs as feeders get a bad rap. I don't even have biting problems with my breeders. A couple of generations of choosing the sweeties to breed and culling to meanies, now they will run up to us to get treats through the hardware cloth.
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25 year old 0.1 from Lincoln, NE
Ball Pythons - 0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly, 2.1 Normals
Kingsnakes - 1.0 L. m. thayeri, 0.1 L. m. thayeri X L. alterna, 1.0 L. g. californiae
Other - 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 1.0 H. nascicus, ?.? Chrysemys picta, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

Since you guys are on the subject, do you know of anyone that is breeding them in South Texas?
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Jason Royer
Royer Reptiles

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signature edited by forum admin. 3/29/07

I have never had a ball that would eat afs's that would not eat mice just as well. but I do have balls that will only eat mice and not afs's. Most of my snakes will switch back and forth between asf's and rats. I never feed mice unless I have too!I wish they all would eat rats.I try feed them what I want First but if that isn't working I feed them what they want.
This snake was 1 year old and just over 200g eating rats. He has beem with me for 7 weeks now and is 600g.

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Jason Amos

Ball Pythons
5.26
Dogs
1.1 Staffordshire Bull Terriers

Awesome whatever that is! I've had the same experience, I switch between ASF and other feeders and the only ones that don't eat everything are the ones that will not eat rats but will eat either ASF's or mice. It's actually easier for me to get ASF's (three providers) than mice (2 providers but spotty availability). I hope to get back to raising my own rodents soon and wouldn't consider anything other than ASF's due to the extra stink of mice or Norway rats. Also the size of ASF's is perfect for ball pythons. Only two of my adult females can eat retired Norway rats but any of the adults can eat any ASF.

This is my one remaining non rat eater (mojave cinnamon female).

Even though she was borderline on size she laid 6 eggs on ASF's hatching two chocolate cinnamon mojaves, a chocolate cinnamon, a chocolate, and two that I don't even have a good guess what they are. I'll keep getting her ASF's for that sort of cutch, especially since the only alternative is mice which are harder for me to get (but I do get mice for my for sale babies due to the remaining stigma against asf feeders).

Darn, wish we had an edit button here. The mom laying eggs is a chocolate mojave, not a cinnamon mojave.

After laying eggs sometimes a female isn't quite as picky as she was before. That is a good time to get them over to rats if you want.

Randy,

That's an interesting clutch. Can you post some pics of the babies? Aldo, what line of chocolates are you using?

Thanks
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Scott Hager
Red Barn Reptiles

Scott,

I call my chocolate line Garcia. Here is the founder female I found at a pet store and Daniel Garcia first got her to breed on a loan:

Here are the babies from her chocolate mojave daughter bred to a chocolate, a cinnamon het hypo, and a pastel yb that I think might be chocolate. I believe these first two are chocolate cinnamon mojave:

I think this one is chocolate cinnamon:

This one really has me stumped. Maybe some sort of cinnamon that's a paradox het hypo?

This one may be a chocolate yb:

Even the presumed normal is oddly bright and has an unexpected clear belly:

He is sweet!!!! &nd you are right most will eat enything after the lay.
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Jason Amos

Ball Pythons
5.26
Dogs
1.1 Staffordshire Bull Terriers

Why would you not buy something just because it has been fed at least one ASF in it's lifetime?

Anyway, I received some imports. I was told they refused to eat rats, mice, hamsters and anyting else he can find. He could not try ASF or gerbils because they were illegal.

So I got me some ASF in preparation for the shipment. They all ate the ASF and converted to Normal Rats in 3-5 feedings.

Now I have a whole lot of ASF. I use the ASF as a snack in between feedings.
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - you can add me if you want- click here

Because of the irrational stigma. It's going away IMO. I've been noticing a lot of new ASF breeders lately.

I do have one (1) BP that refuses to take ASF. She only likes the norway rats.

All my other BPs take rats and snack on ASF
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - you can add me if you want- click here

We feed our hatchlings rat pups hopper mice and soft furs randomly. When we pull feeders they all go into a large pan together for feeding. As a consequence they all have the scent of the others on them. The vast majority of our babies will eat anything we throw at them. That said, the few problem feeders will always eat a hopper mouse first. Something about the way they move I think.

I have also found another interesting thread on another site that explained alot as well...

My last information on ASFs was from years ago... They seem to be more common now and have some benifical effects on weight and breeding??

Thank you all for your thoughts...
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Don Antiel
www.specialtyreptile.com