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Hey I have been snakes for a long time but I just got into the king snake world,What locality is the Goini king snake,and is a moasic king snake just a Florida king snake morph maybe? I have speckled,kings,mexican black,calis.
But I just purchased a pair 1.1 moasic,a 1.goini,1.1 florida kings,and a anery desert king.
Kevin
Hey I have been snakes for a long time but I just got into the king snake world,What locality is the Goini king snake,and is a moasic king snake just a Florida king snake morph maybe? I have speckled,kings,mexican black,calis.
But I just purchased a pair 1.1 moasic,a 1.goini,1.1 florida kings,and a anery desert king.
Kevin
Goini aka (Apalachicola Lowland kingsnakes) are indigenous to the panhandle of Florida in the Franklin, Liberty, Gulf, Jefferson, Leon, as well as other portions of the surrounding county areas.
Well, there are a few different types of "mosaic" kings in the hobby. There are mosaic Eastern kings, Cal. kings, as well as Florida kings. You are probably talking about the Florida kingsnake morph though. In short, these did indeed originate from genuine L. g. floridana captured just south of Lake Okeechobee in the cane fields. They first popped up in clutches from Bill Brant(Gourmet Rodent) in 2003 from snakes that descended from some gravid females.
BTW, your so-called "anerythristic" Desert king is actually an axanthic morph. They do not have any red pigment(erythrin) in their natural color scheme whatsoever. However, they certainly do involve yellow pigment(xanthin)in their natural color scheme. No yellow = "a-xanthic". Xanthos being the Greek word meaning yellow.
Have fun with them!. All of those are very nice snakes to have..
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
I've seen a few Desert Kings(and Cal Kings too) that have orange on the belly.
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www.hcu-tx.org/
I've only seen it twice in juveniles and both times it wasn't very intense.
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Out of the two name choices, even though some hatchlings might display some orange coloration on the belly that goes away as they mature, they would still be far more accurately termed axanthic rather than anerythristic as their natural coloring predominantly involves FAR more yellow. Here is why I say this.....
Xanthophores:
These chromatophores produce red and yellow pigments known as pteridines. These may vary in color from pure yellow to pure red, as well as intermediate shades. Xanthophores possessing a predominantly red coloration are referred to as erythrophores.
Xanthophores also retain yellow to reddish pigments contained in the diet in the form of carotenoids. Carotenoid retention continues throughout life, and intensity of pigmentation varies based on the quantity and types of carotenoids contained in the diet. Additionally, the animals' genetic predisposition towards and ability to store carotenoids will affect appearance.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
>>BTW, your so-called "anerythristic" Desert king is actually an axanthic morph. They do not have any red pigment(erythrin) in their natural color scheme whatsoever. However, they certainly do involve yellow pigment(xanthin)in their natural color scheme. No yellow = "a-xanthic". Xanthos being the Greek word meaning yellow.
Hey Doug, are black-and-white florida kings axanthic or anerythristic? Clearly we've seen lots of juveniles with conspicuous evidence of erythrins (red pigment).
I am not sure there is one real yes or no answer to it, as many Florida kings can naturally involve yellow and no red, and red, but no yellows, black and beige, brown and white, and of course yellows reds and oranges. But it all depends on if it is part of their normal wild color scheme, and if it is recessively heritable or not.
A normal black and white Desrt Cal. king for instance sure as heck isn't axanthic or anerythristic, because it can produce intermediate colors between the two when bred to a very yellow coastal Newport-Long Beach, etc..
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
goini (now meansi) are from Apalachicola natl forest. Mosaics are a florida king pattern recessive trait.
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www.Bluerosy.com
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I don't think all Goini are considered to be Meansi? I believe it's just the ones found near the center of their range which tend to be striped or patternless, if my memory serves me right. there is a cool episode of "Snake Hunters" that was devoted to the subject. I have it recorded on a DVD. I'm not sure I buy into the conclusions, but it was a cool program none the less. It's called "Saving the King", I think? Sorry for not looking it up but I am super tired and going to bed.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Yeah, the way they see it, goini is a getula x meansi intergrade. I have no opinion on all of that, though.
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My problem with it is, I believe they are all a remnant form of intergrade between Getula and Floridana. Now we're to believe that Meansi is a third true subspecies? I guess it's possible, i just have trouble buying it.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
the Apalachicola Kingsnake was formerly named Lampropeltis getula goini. After years of research and many more specimens examined, in 2006 it was renamed to Lampropeltis getula meansi after D. Bruce Means, in recognition of his work on this species.
You cannot trust your F-5 or F-10 patternless snakes to be pure, or even from the supposedly pure part of the range...so, of course you can get goini from them...who knows where your snakes came from originally or how they were produced...
http://cnah.org/pdf_files/524.pdf
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www.Bluerosy.com
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What I found funny in the show I mentioned is Bruce set up traps to catch some true Meansi, but caught what looked like a normal Goins in one trap. He said it wasn't quite what he was looking for. Then at the end of the program, he finally catches the true blue snake he was searching for. He distinguished them from the look of the snake. I believe it was even in the same trap as the one before? So is the only thing that sets them apart the pattern?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
From what I remember reading, its the inner scale lightening that distinguishes a meansi from a "goini". Because of that, you can only go by specimens that are over 3 feet or so. So in other words, a blotched kingsnake with more than 50% (or something like that) of its scale (in the dark bands) being light, is a meansi. Then the striped and patternless forms are also considered meansi. The problem with all that is there have been striped meansi found well into the so called intergrade zone. And I know a guy on FHF, who found a female blotched king, in the intergrade zone, that looked more getala than anything. She was gravid, he hatched the eggs, and got some looking mostly like a getula, others were blotched, and one was identical to a striped meansi. He even posted all the pictures. Pretty interesting stuff.
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Just like FR pointed out, there are all types being hatched from WC gravid females. It's very confusing to say the least and to try to sort it all out, like man loves to do is almost pointless. But as Rainer once said, Adam's job in the garden was to name all the animals! Wait!!!! Did I just agree with FR, and Rainer both in the same post?!?!?!?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
The reality is, the snakes are what they are, what we call them, can and does change as we change the rules. The names will always change, but the animals stay the same.
Well, they do evolve, just so much slower then our methods. Cheers
I was thinking that.
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Gerard
"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"
I can just picture Jorge and FR standing under the sign with their arms around each other posing for the history making shot....HAHAA!!
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
That is hilarious Mark!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
I think subspecies have gone the way of the dinosaur, they are extint.
Personally, I like more discriptive local terms, like subspecies or local types, like they use in other areas like plants and such.
Also, back in the seventies, A friend and I collected a gravid mearnsi(goins at the time) and its clutch contained the whole range from mearnsi to goini, to fla. king patterns.
That female was from the middle, Applachicola river, Chipola river area. Where they meet.
The actual point is, it doesn't matter what they officially call them anymore as it changes to fast and is about to change soon.
With that said, common names are much more useful and discriptive. Cheers
Ok cool thanks for all answers and comments,I am new here and loke all the info yall just gave me.
Kevin
>>I think subspecies have gone the way of the dinosaur, they are extint.
>>
>> Personally, I like more discriptive local terms, like subspecies or local types, like they use in other areas like plants and such.
>>
>> Also, back in the seventies, A friend and I collected a gravid mearnsi(goins at the time) and its clutch contained the whole range from mearnsi to goini, to fla. king patterns.
>>
>> That female was from the middle, Applachicola river, Chipola river area. Where they meet.
>>
>> The actual point is, it doesn't matter what they officially call them anymore as it changes to fast and is about to change soon.
>>
>> With that said, common names are much more useful and discriptive. Cheers
Thanks for another history lesson Frank. Did the clutch contain any PB or Jelly or Fluffs or Grilled Cheeses as well? 
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Joe
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