Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi, i have a Very small milk snake. about 10 inches long but half the thickness of a pencil. i do not think it can eat a pinkie. i read that they can eat something their thickness, or 25% bigger then the width. and the pinkie is probably twice as big as he is thick. do you think it would eat a cricket? also, i have read if you have a young milk snake and it is in the fall to let it hybernate. not sure what to do. please let me know if you have any tips. new to the message board. i am sure i can take a picture of him and show you what he looks like. he is an active little guy. So i dont think he is sick. i just think he is pretty much a new born. thanks!

To begin with, no, it will not eat a cricket. Lampropeltine Colubrids, in general, are vertebrate specialists.

We'll need a little more information to help you out any further. What kind of milksnake is it? In a species as wide-ranging, both geographically and ecologically, as Lampropeltis triangulum there are a lot a differences between disparate forms. Where did you acquire your snake? Are you sure of its size? A 10-inch L. triangulum of any type should be WELL able to eat a pinky mouse... whether they're willing or not is the next bridge to cross. Many forms, especially the ones from "North of the Border" are lizard and Peromyscus/Microtus (two types of native rodents) specialists. These native rodents smell quite a bit different than domestic mice and have smaller pinkies. With this in mind, some of the smaller subspecies, at 5-6 inches (or smaller) are too small to take domestic mouse pinkies right out of the egg, even if so inclined.

The next round of questions involves your set-up. What do you have the snake in? Substrate? Temperature? Hide(s)? Moss tub?

One of my hatchlings from this year: L. t. gentilis x multistrata intergrade - Logan Co., CO stock

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-Cole

If this is a w/c baby, you sure picked a difficult first snake to work with. As Cole stated, with more information some sound advice can be given. Many milk snake babies require some tricks to get feeding in captivity.

Joe

Yes, it is a w/c. From N.E. kansas. I read somewhere that they "might" eat a cricket, or some other soft bodied insect. That being said i did not think it would. I have owned boas, and pythons in the past. When i had a baby ball python i had to feed it first in a brown lunch sack. Seemed to work. Right now it is in one of those "Critter" cages used for tarantulas with aspen bedding. the cage is large. i have 40 plus gallon tanks with heat pads on the bottom, but i have read not to put such a small tank in a large area or they freak out. I had to sell my larger snakes 6 years ago and still have a lot of stuff. I have heat rocks as well from other reptiles but i have read they can burn the snake and to use a heat pad. right now he does not have heat yet the temp in the room is 72 right now. will a small reptile heat pad melt the plastic on this cage? anyway, i am going to try and put some pictures on here. thanks for you help. I also read they dont need special lighting because they are nocturnal.

having problems getting the pictures on here. do i have to use photobucket or something. i tried making the picture small, and pasting it on the post but all i saw was the picture, and no typing.

hope my pictures turn out better then my spell checking.

It is a Red Milksnake. It should be able to handle new borne pinkies. If it will not eat them, try small lizards, either skinks or fence lizards.

ECTimaeus

Thanks! I will try the pinkie I have in a couple days. what does the temp. have to at least be for them to digest their food properly?

lower to mid 80's, but do NOT guess at the temp in a confined space, use an accurate thermometer right at the suface where the snake's belly actually is, as this is what is critical for their proper digestion.

Good luck with the little guy!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I have to dissagree with some of the posters who said a hotspot of low 80's is enough. I know that one of them lives in florida where the temps are near 80's anyway and heat tape is not used. But iin colder temperate zones and hotspot of at least 92F is reccommneded for the snakes to feed and digest properly.

Remember, this is a small hot spot and the snakes know which temps to pick. They may want to thermoregulate be warmer or a bit cooler. It is the choices we need to offer and that includes a greater range of temperature than WE think they need. A temp of 82 is not really giving them a hotspot and of course they will sit on it. because that is as warm as they can get given the choices you gave them,
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www.Bluerosy.com

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I said that because knowing the OP isn't real experienced with tiny milks, and they are far better kept in very small enclosure when juveniles. A real high temp gradient for each side in a very confined space as I mentioned might not be able to be practically achieved and the whole area could get too hot and even kill the snake depending on how he does this. Also, I didn't say a "basking spot" of low to mid 80's. I also said make sure the snake's belly can get in the low to mid 80's. That is plenty for any small milksnake to digest properly. Cole and Dell both know this too, and there is nobody that knows more about N. American milksnake husbandry than they do.

I tell less experienced people these things for a very specific reason. Because if I caually told the person 90's and the snake couldn't get way from it for any reason because of an improper setup, that would be far worse and could kill the snake even. Low to mid 80's at the enclosure's floor surface where the snakes belly is won't run a risk of getting too hot, no matter what, and at the same time will allow for proper digestion.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Here, I think this setup should give a good gradient.

Kinda like an indoor/outdoor pool. makes since!

HAHAHAA!!!,......man, that pic had me freakin ROLLING Joe!!!...

I remember something similar to that on the king forum where we talked about a 25 foot long enclosure with one end having icicles hanging off of the tub, and the other end sitting in the oven baking at 500 degrees for a good gradient for the snake to choose a happy medium in..LMFAO!!!!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I figured you might get a kick out of that one Doug. That is from a photo I took for FR a couple years ago.

Joe

LOL!!,..it's funny that you mentioned that the pic was for an FR post a long time ago, because that is EXACTLY who got me and some others joking about the frozen icicles on one end and 500 degree pizza oven at the other end..LMAO!!!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I thought that was a pic in Rainers snakes room.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

"I thought that was a pic in Rainers snakes room"

HAHAHAA!!!!..
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

LOL

I think this whole joke is because you guys live in Florida. I just bought a new house now and the same setup i had before is in this one. I actually look for a snake room to get cold.

The room gets cold (down to at least 40f)during winter. So i crank the heat tape up and feed all winter. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also I installed 2 window air conditioning units for the summer. Anyone living in Florida could do the same thing. The room units are easy to install and you can isolate one room to be cold.

I really find that a cold room with heat tape on one end is much better than keeping the snakes at a set temperature of 80-82F.

I am sure that any of you guys would admit this putting ego asaide. But at the same time i know that certain living conditions and placements of snake rooms will not always allow this or make it possible. But having a cold room and high and low temps in the encloser is optimal. Never set temp range.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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You find that using a snake room with that extreme temperature difference the best way to breed floridana. Other people here don't seem to have any problem doing it many different ways. The problem isn't our ego it is your ego's ego that doesn't like to hear that your way isn't law! Another problem with having to extremes like that is if one fails you get left with popsicles or soup. So telling some one that doesn't even know what kind of snake they have to set them up where any mess up can kill the animal isn't a joke.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Another one of your jibberish no-nothing posts.

Here is my post again.
Read it and LEARN.

I have to dissagree with some of the posters who said a hotspot of low 80's is enough. I know that one of them lives in florida where the temps are near 80's anyway and heat tape is not used. But iin colder temperate zones and hotspot of at least 92F is reccommneded for the snakes to feed and digest properly.

Remember, this is a small hot spot and the snakes know which temps to pick. They may want to thermoregulate be warmer or a bit cooler. It is the choices we need to offer and that includes a greater range of temperature than WE think they need. A temp of 82 is not really giving them a hotspot and of course they will sit on it. because that is as warm as they can get given the choices you gave them,
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Come on Rainman, just write the book already. You can send me a free copy and I will tell everyone it's good.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Haaaaaaaa!
That was too funny.
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Randy Whittington

HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Genesis 1:1

I said that because knowing the OP isn't real experienced with tiny milks

Well if you know him than maybe a better explanation over the phone would be helpful.

I explain this stuff over the phone all the time and it takes a lot less time than posting. Then there are no questions as to what a hotspot is or any other nuances that regarding snake husbandry.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Your snake appears to be a L. t. gentilis x syspila intergrade. It displays features of each form an they intergrade broadly through the Flint Hills (and for some way either direction) of Eastern Kansas.

They're lizard specialists as juveniles. Your animal may or may not accept a domestic mouse (Mus) pinky. If it doesn't, some trickery will be required.

You're caging will need some improvements. A heat source is a MUST. Do not use a hot rock. To digest it's food, the animal will need access to temperatures at least in the low 80's Fahrenheit. Cool temperatures (like those you now have it in) are one part of the stimulus set that sends them into brumation mode.

Hope this helps!
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-Cole

that is not small....some are less than half that size....
try pinks...alive...if it doesn't eat...try the paper bag trick in the tank....try cutting or poking the pink head so brains come out...and blood...use toothpick.....

cage...warm.....substrate ...aspen,cypress...or even...dirt...

...good luck...nice snake....

....give it a water bowl and a food bowl...milks will learn to eat from a food bowl really quickly....once eating...and being in a bowl keeps the pink or pinky parts clean..and findable...

...
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........JY

Thanks. I have a lot to learn about milk snakes. That is why I came here. I appreciate all the advice I am getting. I just could not picture him eating a pinkie, but it is amazing really what snakes can do. I want to make sure he settles a little while and in a day or two I will feed him/her. It likes to bite right now, but I have read that is what they do when they are babies. cant draw the blood yet. I have been bitten by some big snakes in the past. This guy is more up my alley!