Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Why are there no Califronia kingsnakes found in the wild Florida? Why no wild pops?

With all the introduced species taking hold why has the second most captive produced snake in the world never been been found to be reproducing in Florida? The Cal kings have been over produced and released into Florida for a couple decades now. Why can't they survive?

And don't say it is because all the Florida kings are eating them. If that were true, then there would be no cornsnakes either.

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www.Bluerosy.com

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I don't think there have been large numbers of them being released? Cal Kings have been easy to resell or even sell to a petshop. I can see escaped animals getting into the wild, but then they need to find a mate. Maybe the conditions that have made the florida kings dwindle in numbers also prevents them from taking up residence? Who knows? It's an interesting question though.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

See I think with as many Cal Kings as there were that they must have been released into the wild. We are talking about HUGE numbers of Cal kings that hatched out in Florida collections.

Then there are escapes as well. Including whole new clucthes as well as intentional releases. Why no Cal king x Florida hybrids are found? They breed easy in captivity.

It would seem that some or all of the Cal kings should survive. So why didn't they or can't they is my question?

It is evident to me with as many cal kings in the hobby being produced in the last coupe decades and the market oversturated for so long not to mention newbies and pet snakes kept in Florida. That there should be populations found somehwere.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Jim Pether from the Canary Islands, informed me that albino cal kings are feral and abundant there. Cheers

That's interesting. Is it only albinos or are there normals too?
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

>>Jim Pether from the Canary Islands, informed me that albino cal kings are feral and abundant there. Cheers
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Maybe they have been absorbed?

Thus all of the cool genes you find in them now Rainer.......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Lol! How do they do in really humid environments?
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Lol! How do they do in really humid environments?

I would guess that Cal king in the wild would seek out conditions that are dry. Just like they know what temps to choose for themselves.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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All kings require a fairly high humidity. where they would not survive is in non draining soils. Like swamps. Unless they went into dead or rotting trees, like scarlet kings.

They would survive in draining soils, like high pine, sandy soil areas which is common in fla.

I would be more inclined to agree with the absorbed theory. Either outcompeted by Fla kings, or genetically absorbed by them.

If you look at numbers, you could release fifty and that number would simply be absorbed, as the normal base population of kings is very high, So fifty into thousands.

If Cal kings could find "kingsnake habitat" that is void of kingsnakes, then they can go feral.

The high sandy areas your talking about are not found in south Florida. That's where most of the exotic non native species are found. I have seen a lot of "pets" that had escaped and been captured. That usually happeneds in the city and those animals did not look like they were happy. I have never been in cal kings natural habitat but I don't see how they would survive well enough to establish a population down here. . I dought that many get released anyway. More likely it would be the occasional accidental escape. Most of the human population doesn't live by the Everglades and the other side is the bay. They would have to escape or be released on the western or southern part of town to have any chance of ending up in the wild. Maybe in a city park like the B.c.i in Deering Estates. They are holding their own just fine but the habitat and climate are right for the species.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

I think you're overemphasizing south florida in this discussion. As for how they'd survive a humid environment, I think plenty of herpetoculturists have kept and bred them in circumstances without a/c, in florida, or at least in situations with high humidity.

That's why I'm asking. I have never kept them and was curious if they would be able to handle it. When I said I don't think it was just my first opinion. I live in south Florida so that's why I used that example. You don't hear about introduced species from the rest of the state that often. At least being feral. Keeping them in a cage being given food and not dealing with predators is different. I have never even heard of there being cal kings found in Florida. Maybe in the city but never out in the wild.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Hi Gerard,

Your confusing "tropical" species, with other non tropical species. Cal kings are NOT tropical and therefore would not be restricted to South Fla.

Has I stated, They most likely cannot out compete a kingsnake of the same species that is locality adapted, such as fla kings.

They would have to be in kingsnake habitat(getula) that was not currently occupied.

What your not considering is, Both are getula, thus both have similar requirements. In captivity, the EXACT same husbandry works for both fla kings and cal kings.

High pine is a FLA habitat, as well as other draining soils, which is what kingsnakes use. Cal kings would not be resticted to South fla. Cal kings occur regularly where it deep freezes.

Frank, I'm not confused. I understand the competion idea. It applies to any non native animal that ends up in a different habitat. The not being a tropical species is what I was confused about. Not competing with other species. Rainer said he knows of a lot being released and I was curious if they would even be able to handle the environment? It seems opposite of what they need.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Thus all of the cool genes you find in them now Rainer.......LOL

I know you are just jopking with this question but will answer anyway.

Most of the genes in Floridas don't exists in Cal kings...axanthic, Peanut butters. Sure the lavender albino and T neg do. But that is about it.

Also i am not discovering new traits. Just combinng them to make multi homozygots.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Yes Rainer....I WAS just joking.....
And I know what you are doing....
I am doing the same with other kingsnakes myself...
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I thought you said your friend has axanthic cal kings?????????????
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

I thought you said your friend has axanthic cal kings?????????????

yep I did and he does. They were found about 20 years after the first axanthic Florida. As far as I know his are the first and only ones produced. Parents came from laclity wildcaught stock.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Are there any hypo cal kings?????
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

>>Are there any hypo cal kings?????

Yep.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

there are all the same morphs in cal kings as floridana.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

>>there are all the same morphs in cal kings as floridana.
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All except the PB type hypo.....

But there are others that floridana don't have like hypermelanism and single recessive "ghost" types........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>>>there are all the same morphs in cal kings as floridana.
>>>>-----
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>>All except the PB type hypo.....
>>
>>But there are others that floridana don't have like hypermelanism and single recessive "ghost" types........
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I bet if you breed a californiae hypo to a floridana hypo you won't get hypo offspring.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

In agree, I wonder what would happen with the albinos though? Lol!
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

>>In agree, I wonder what would happen with the albinos though? Lol!
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I believe the amels are the same gene from different parts of the nation but I never really considered a hypo floridana the true definition of the term.......hypo floridana have reduced black pattern not reduced black pigment, melanin....like other hypomelanistic kings do.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>I thought you said your friend has axanthic cal kings?????????????
>>
>>yep I did and he does. They were found about 20 years after the first axanthic Florida. As far as I know his are the first and only ones produced. Parents came from laclity wildcaught stock.

Rainer...I have some of those axanthic California kings too and 1.3 breeders that will potentially produce some axanthics next year but I am still skeptical about the term "axanthic" for them.
What is the determining factor that they are not anything more than just desert phase (white banded) California kings?

Was it proven out by breeding the axanthics to yellow banded coastal phase animals then by breeding their offspring back to the axanthic merely producing the correct percentage of white banded offspring and yellow banded offspring?

Not really questioning it all just curious as to how they were named axanthic when there are normal (non axanthic) white banded California kings already that are not considered axanthic.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

My thoughts exactly......

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I still have not seen an axanthic cal king.

Just saying.............

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

...just curious as to how they were named axanthic when there are normal (non axanthic) white banded California kings already that are not considered axanthic.

why should the black-and-white "normal" cal kings not be considered axanthic? I think sometimes we fail to consider what's obvious.

Marshall McLuhan said whoever it was discovered water, you can bet it wasn't a fish.

The reason for that is because when breeding white banded to yellow banded, you get intermediate coloring. Same happens in the wild where the Desert phase meets the Coastal Phase. The yellow gradually turns white the deeper you get into the desert.
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>>The reason for that is because when breeding white banded to yellow banded, you get intermediate coloring. Same happens in the wild where the Desert phase meets the Coastal Phase. The yellow gradually turns white the deeper you get into the desert.
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>>

I agree....it's a phase not a genetic morph......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Sometimes i wonder about the internet and how things get started and then are turned wayyy off topic by some people who want attention just wat attention...

The above statement is not pointing at you. But somehow you got caught up in the middle of it.

The yellow gradually turns white the deeper you get into the desert

What do you consider deep in the desert? ....Death valley? Salton sea?

Because i have found desert cal kings all over and they all have some yellow coloration on them (unless you only look at the top of the snake and not the belly or sides). Then when you breed them you will get some very yellow and some lighter white. You can pick and choose (selective breeding)those to produce less white. But really never gets rid of it completly.

Ever painted your walls white and found out that the primer you put first is whiter.

Point is there are degrees of white and yellow and the terms anery and axanthic really mean nothing. We use it mostly to describe a recessive trait these days.

Anerythristic Florida king (with nice white background)

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www.Bluerosy.com

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Anerythristic is the lacking of red pigment.

Axanthism is the lacking of yellow pigment.

I have seen many desert phase calkings with no yellow whatsoever! And they were not axanthic.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Anerythristic is the lacking of red pigment.

Axanthism is the lacking of yellow pigment.

Okay Mr TFH book. You are correct. We will need to work on you further though. Intervention is an option for at Daytona 2012. Forced intervention is to lead the individual to recognize the severity of their situation.

hang in there buddy!
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Oh.....you're going to go again after you missed this year?

I will bring my TFH books andbteachnyou some things......
Maybe in person you'll understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

"I have seen many desert phase calkings with no yellow whatsoever! And they were not axanthic"

That is absolutely 100% correct!

I had a 50-50 that I got at the Orlando Reptile Expo back in the early-mid 90's to pair with the outstanding male I had at home that was so pure jet black, and pure snow white it was ridiculous, and I went there with the sole purpose of making a special POINT of checking every single snakes venter and lateral area to get the very best one at the entire expo before I made my final choice on which one I wanted. I eaven made sure I got the one with the lightest clored SKIN between the scales too. I searched all afternoom and went through many nice 50-50 Cal. kings before I finally found the exact one that met my strict criteria requirements for my collection. The when they matured, the pair produced some of the most awesomely clean, pure black and white 50-50 known to the entire hobby. People were just blown away at how killer they were compared to most others.

Here is a pic of the female......and she wasn't no axanthic either..LOL!, just a killer normal specimen. No yellow, no beige, just pure jet black and snow white on every single scale from stem to stern...

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

true axanthic recerssives don't look anything like that.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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"true axanthic recerssives don't look anything like that"

Did you ever hear me say that they say they did look just like that?. Anyway, anything anyone has said regarding anything about it you would dispute anyway.

If John produces a snow if he breeds his alleged axanthic to a straight-up amel, then raises all the double hets up, then breeds them and produces ANY SNOWS from any of the following clutches, then he will have PROVEN his to be an axanthic animal without a doubt. This way it eliminates ANY possibility of anything being non-allelic if he bred it to a known axanthic of any other type in the hobby. Now are you going to attempt to dispute that as well?

Otherwise, nobody on this earth including you will EVER know if those are truly axanthic with 100% certainty by looking at them, and until that is done and proven-out or not it will remain that way..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

doug,

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

I have seen the ones tha John has and they are a hypo from Gourmet rodent. The ones i am referring to are true axanthics. I don't need to breed them to prove them out. They are blue and look to be similar to the axanthic in Floridas.

Here is a hypo a I had a while back. I think this is what you are referring to as Jlassiters axanthic.

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www.Bluerosy.com

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No, Doug is talking about the other ones that are het lavender and hypermelanistic but were also given the name "het axanthic" by the new owner because they threw some kings that were white and others that were yellowish. I E mailed the originator of that stock and I think its pretty clear now they were mislabeled axanthic due to the new owner not completely understanding what he had and why there was variation with yellow and white. This is the sort of thing that happens when you people start mixing locales. hahaha
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Hahaha !!!
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

That's right Ross. Once again, Rainer doesn't know what HE is talking about!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

This is the snake John recently acquired that I and everyone else was talking about..... except Rainer of course.

I can't recall exactly what it was labeled as, but it looks to be a definite lavender of some strain, and I "think" John said it was supposed to be het for hypermelanism as well as homo axanthic. This is the only snake that I was talking about in my post, not a hypo snake of any kind. Everyone already knew that but Rainer I guess because everyone else understood what the thread was about.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yes I know that snake. John sent me pics in a private email to discuss.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Damn...this is getting to be a mess...LOL
Actually that one is not it....that is the Don Shores Lavender Amel Desert Phase I picked up......

Here is the now known Platinum Cal King......I don't think it is axanthic as advertised but who knows.......

As I come to realize an axanthic calking wouldn't be that spectacular anyway.......There's already black and white cal kings.......I would love to see a blue and black one like Rainer is suggesting.......

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Ah, okay, sorry about that..LOL!

I thought I got the right pic from an older post. With different lighting they looked pretty similar just from memory.

Anyway, yeah, I am certainly not going to ride it any more bro, I know that you knew I wasn't talking negatively about the cool looking snake, just trying to explain which one we were refering to in the thread. I agree, enough axanthic talk for now..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"That's right Ross. Once again, Rainer doesn't know what HE is talking about!"

HEH HEH HEH!

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www.Bluerosy.com

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hahaha OK you guys are even on this thread. You both don't know what you are talking about. hahahaha
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Jlassiter also sent pics of the platinum. This is all elementary to me. If you read my post.. All i typed was, "I know that snake" . What i did not say was that john sent a pic of Platinum as well.

I guess i always figure these guys step into their own doo-doo so much they will just come up with some other non related offense to side step the last pile of poop..

By now, I think that most intelligent readers will be able to determine for themslves who has the stinky feet.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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"Jlassiter also sent pics of the platinum. This is all elementary to me. If you read my post.. All i typed was, "I know that snake" . What i did not say was that john sent a pic of Platinum as well.

By now, I think that most intelligent readers will be able to determine for themslves who has the stinky feet."

HEY EVERYONE!, RAINER WAS SENT A PIC OF THE SNAKE!, AND IT WAS ALL ELEMENTARY TO HIM!!!, so let's break-out the band and get a huge parade going in Rainer's honor just like he would do for himself, shall we!!..LOL!!!

Wow!, yeah!!, you really ARE the most awesome (the most arrogant) guy on the face of the planet, aren't ya!?..HAHAHA!!

Big freakin deal, so you saw a pic of it?...WOW!!. I saw it in person at Daytona,..so what?

The snakes looked a bit similar in the lower light pics of Shores' amel as the one I found in John's old post and I thought that was the same one I saw.....OKAY???

Dude, YOU step in your own poop, then put your foot in your mouth more than anyone else I have ever seen...period! and the ONLY reason MORE people don't also tell you this is simply because they would rather just ignore you and your repulsive, pompous BS instead because they know it will only usher in more if they reply...LOL!

BTW, did you ever notice why I ignore you most of the time, and maybe only ever post anything in response to any of your posts or threads?. Anything more than few short sentences at best always greatens the odds dramatically of you saying something stupid and very dependable. Ya know, just like I did with your other little childish pissing match post you made earlier?

So then you can't even let it go at THAT!, you have to go posting some more ridiculous childish crap like you just did here on top of it just so everyone will notice you once again, right??....LOL!!!,...geeez dude, how about acting 52 for a change instead of 5 huh??, even a 10 or 15 year old would feel stupid and would be far too mature to post the nonsense that you do here.........seriously!

Gosh man, you really ARE the MOST AWESOME dude there ever was on the planet!!!..................... (in your own mind that is)

"By now, I think that most intelligent readers will be able to determine for themslves who has the stinky feet"

Yeah, ain't that the truth Rainer? That is probably the best thing you have said here in months. And they have bud!,....a long, long time ago. Heck, it doesn't take more than one or two posts from you for anyone that doesn't know you to figure it out for themselves,......just ask around..LOL!

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

LOL! That's a lot of writing dude. But none of it makes sense.

..well, maybe to you. LOL!
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www.Bluerosy.com

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BTW the whole arguement was over a normal Black and White cal king being called an axanthic. Which techincally you could say that. Just like any lighter than normal cal king could be called a hypo. But i have always said I was was talking about a true RECESSIVE axanthic Cal king.

Do you see where they sideline the topics when they step in poop. They just can't stand losing.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Would you all stop it!....lol
I won't believe it until you share pics of this Bluish Cali king Rainer...........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFk2_5RkwlA
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Ah, okay, sorry about that..LOL!

I thought I got the right pic from an older post. With different lighting they looked pretty similar just from memory.

I didn't know either, so I E mailed John yesterday asking him what was what. John has so many snakes its hard to keep track. lol
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Damn, that's a nice one Doug.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Thanks Gerard!

Yeah, she sure was a nice one bro..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I try to keep it simple, but yes I'm aware the undersides can have a slight yellowish hue or more of a cream color. I've never seen a pure white one either but there is a huge difference between Desert phase and Coastal phase.

Deeper is like a range of 10 miles. And I also didn't mention the localities that show intermediate coloring, also have some variation. Like some kings will have more yellow than others. The farther you get into the desert, that variation turns into fewer examples showing a yellowish color and you can see that change in about a 5 mile distance, but you have to go in a strait line from coastal habitat, into the desert. Well, that has been my experience so far.
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Not really questioning it all just curious as to how they were named axanthic when there are normal (non axanthic) white banded California kings already that are not considered axanthic.

I am not sure I understand your question?
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www.Bluerosy.com

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HERE, I'M QUOTING THE PREVIOUS POSTER:
"...just curious as to how they were named axanthic when there are normal (non axanthic) white banded California kings already that are not considered axanthic."

HERE, I'M ASKING WHY HE CONSIDERS BLACK AND WHITE CAL KINGS NOT TO BE AXANTHICS: why should the black-and-white "normal" cal kings not be considered axanthic? I think sometimes we fail to consider what's obvious.

Marshall McLuhan said whoever it was discovered water, you can bet it wasn't a fish.

My point is, why is a black and white produced in captivity considered axanthic, and a black and white in the wild not considered to be axanthic? If we found an amelanistic in the wild, it'd still be amelanistic, right?

NOTE the term can be used two different ways: 1) to describe a phenotype, or what the animal looks like, or 2) to describe the genotype that produces the appearance

Or both, of course.
Link

it's unintentional and doesn't link to anything. Sorry bout that.

Axanthic means no yellow.....
There have been no yellow California kings around forever....we call them desert phase......what makes these "axanthics" any different than the desert phase California kings?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

ohhh, I get it. You guys are just plain word games. For a second i though you meant that there are other axanthics in the hobby.

Ya'll been following Hubbs' book on genetics to much.

brian always said it is is light IS a hypo ect..

But I thinbki we all know what we are talking about when it come sto gentic recessive axanthics, anerys or whatever.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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No.....you still don't get it......
All axanthic snakes are typically a genetic morph of a snake that normally has yellow coloration.

California kings have brown and yellow coloration on the coast and black and white coloration in the desert.....coastal and desert PHASES.

What makes these axanthic California kings any different than a desert phase calking that is not called axanthic?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

NO YOU DON'T GET IT .

It is just a word game for you. What we call them is all incorrect. just like bechtel told me that Anerythritic and axanthic are two terms that can be used interchangable. forget the yellow to orange to red and fade to yellow and bone white coloration. That are axanthics because i am referring to a recessive trait. lets say you bred an axanthic florida to one of those dester B&W Cal kings. It would still be axanthic then , now wouldn't it.

BTW, what you call B&W deserts cal kings have yellow on the sides and belly.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Nope you still don't get it.......lol

Btw.... I've seen many desert phase California kings with no yellow on their sides or belly.........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Btw.... I've seen many desert phase California kings with no yellow on their sides or belly.........

No Mr. Aryan nazi! you just want them to be white so that is what you think you see.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Okay Rainer.....you win!.........lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Why is Rainer avoiding the question? lol
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>>Why is Rainer avoiding the question? lol
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>>

Cuz it's like talking to a 5 year old or the wall..........look....squirrel....squirrel......lmao!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I guess the three white calkings I have with no yellow whatsoever are axanthic then.........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I don't always answer direct questions. I just lead you into a path where you will hopefully figure it out on your own. Along the way you will learn more than if i just answered.

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www.Bluerosy.com

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Nope.....you just never understood the question.......lol

I know what I was trying to ask you but you never caught it........I guess you are taking too much Geritol.......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I know about Black and white Cal kings. I used to find the whitets back in the 70-60's. I also know about the anery and axanthic. I was the one who asked Dr. Bern Bechtel (who wrote the book on snake gentics) years ago and he explained that the terms don't mean anything. Reds, yellows, all the same thing. He even has the pics in his book labled backwards.

I was way ahead of you since the very first word on this subject.

Now, I have 10 whole months to help you before the intervention. Hopefully by then, my work won't be that hard.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Lol......if you can make it in August.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

hahahaha Ok but I don't think we'll find the answer that way.
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/
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**Most of the genes in Floridas don't exists in Cal kings...axanthic**

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Just saying..................

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

I've long thought that if introduction via the pet trade were as likely as people think we'd have corns and cal kings from coast to coast from canada to mexico...
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

I've long thought that if introduction via the pet trade were as likely as people think we'd have corns and cal kings from coast to coast from canada to mexico...

true. But certain places like florida and hawaii, introduced species just seem to take off.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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That's right. Hawaii is a good example. Jacksons chameleons and dendrobates auratus are doing very well there. That is because the habitat is very similar to where they come from. Is south Florida similar to the cal kings natural habitat?
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Is south Florida similar to the cal kings natural habitat?

Who said anything about south Florida? I said Florida, and FR answered your question above.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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It's called a question. FR has not responded to my posts. Where in Florida were you talking about? You said they are over produced and released. Where are you getting those reports from? Don't be a baby. I liked your question.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

I am not going to answer a question when you can READ THE THREAD YOURSELF.

LAZY ARSE!
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www.Bluerosy.com

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It's ok Rainer. I know you don't know. That's why you asked.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

The Cal kings have been over produced and released into Florida for a couple decades now. Why can't they survive?

Where did you get this info at?
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I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion about me because I'm not the boogieman................. I'm real.

www.hognosefarm.com

He heard it in his head.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

I happen to know something about introduced species and how easy it is for just a few specimens released to develope. I lived in Hawaii.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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I didn't know that. I take back everything I said. You should have said that from the beginning. No one would have questioned you if you would have. Lol!!!
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Come on Gerard! You know better!

The Decline and Extirpation of the Kingsnake in Florida

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Genesis 1:1

Of course I do!
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

So far you have not given an explanation to the thread topic which whas why the Calif kings have not taken. Personally I think it is the red ants and as FR said they are oucompeted by the Florida kings.

To ask for proof of how many cali kings were released in Florida makes me think you have been on extra stupid pills this month.

Matter of fact Gerard . I must say the last 4 weeks you have not been your witty self. Your posts have been downright weak and left me dissapointed. .
What's a matter baby? You can talk to daddy.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Ok, any animal that is released in a new environment is going to have to compete with the native fauna. Either they get along with the native species like the Peacock Bass or they can mess things up like the fire ants do. My explanation is that they HAVE NOT been released in any numbers that would allow them to take hold. It was stupid of me to ask you to back something up that you said. I'm surprised that you are still answering anything on here. I thought you would have been hiding by now. Proof would be a know population of them. Rainer, why isn't there a population of Tigers running around Florida? They are kept and bred here. It must be the ants and cougars that are keeping them from establishing a population. As far as the last month goes, I have been moving and unpacking to my new house. It takes a lot to move my animals. I will try and step up my comments to your stupid remarks.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

and more LMFAO!!!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

So you are comparing releasing captive tigers to the common calif king.

LOL! I realy don't know what to say jorge....err , I mean Gerard.

First, finish your move and get back when you are fully functioning again. Second, don't think you are smart because Doug laughs at your every comment. That is , unless you want to be on the ignore list like the three amigos. You are heading their buddy, don't disspoint me for long. I know you are better than that.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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I like that. Rainer you should try and be funny more often. You are better at that than acting smart. The tigers are just a comparison to how you asked the question. You have no proof that they are getting released there is all kinds of established reptiles in Florida. Cal kings haven't made the list. Yet! So why aren't there corn snake morphs breeding all over the place? There's a good one. It's a native that wouldn't even have to try.
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!