Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,
i have thinking of getting a copperhead for more than a year now and hoping to get one in hamburg PA in 2 weeks or so.
It will be my first official hot(not considering boigas hot) and thus have some questions.
I have worked with many cottonmouths in florida.
compared with a water mocasin how is the copperheads behavior.
are they quick to snap? and how quick are they? i have seen cottonmouths move pretty fast.
I also want to know if southern,northern,broadbanded ect can be treated the same in case of a bite.
i was planning to get a juvenile.
thanks
Kevin

I dont keep hots, I am only 15. but i do snake removal and have worked with a few coppers. Agkistrodon contortrix is my favorite snake. This is what i found in removals i have done. They seem a little more lade back than Agkistrodon.P. With a venom load of 40-75 mg its still no joke. I would get a northern copper semply because you live in PA and the emercey room would be better abele to treat you if you were bit. sorry about the spelling

The emergency room should be prepared to treat bites from all Agkistrodon since CroFab, the antivenin that is probally carried, works on all the US pitvipers. You should not necessarily rely on the ER as an antivenom bank for your own personal collection though. Do a simple search on copperheads, or even search past posts on here and you should be able to turn up enough info to make a decision on what subspecies you want. I also feel there is something rewarding about keeping native snakes but the choice is yours. Good luck.

Jason

First, A.c.mokasen is illegal to sell and posibly keep with in PA borders without a permit. You wont find any at Hamburg, well, any that are listed as A.c.mokasen anyway (I still se them there but under A.c.contortrix). Im not quite sure how the laws go about aquireing WCs but I would definately check hard if you attend on keeping any native PA sp.

As for which ssp to keep, all are about on par as far as venom is concerned. Some generally act worse then others but there are exceptions to every rule. Being that you are in PA, I would suggest looking to aquire a sub adult to adult A.c.contortrix so as not to have to worry about feeding. Baby Coppers are renouned for being big pains in the butt to get started and it would be best to avoid if posible.

Lastly, AV is genneraly not given for contortrix bites. Its just not usualy needed and if I were you, unless circumsatnces were extream, I would insist that they dont give it to ya!! Crofab is bloody expensive (last confirmed price I heard was $450 a vile but I have also heard of it being as expensive as $850!) and chances are your insurance wont cover any of it!

Well, just my 2 cents on the matter.

Later,
J

That sounds like the bargain of the year. I've heard more like $1500 to $3000 per vial. A girl I worked with was bitten by a c. v. viridis, each vial I think she said was $2000 or so, the bill was around $40,000. I think she only received 10 vials. If only everything could be as cheap as Costa Rican Poly.

It comes in a two-pack for $1690.28

Cheers,
WK

according to the governing body of reptiles in PA (Fish & Boat Comission ?), you can keep & sell native animals if you have the proper paper trail. Records of legal acquisition, receipts, etc.

Copperheads are way more calm and overall rewarding than cottonmouths. They're my favorite snakes. I've kept about 50 of them and they're one of the few snakes I've bred. None that I've ever had contact with have ever been a problem. Most are totally laid back and alot are even handleable. But don't do that. There's no reason to and it's just stupid. I've had Trans Pecos' that are really skittish but still not that bad at all.

Being that they're pretty calm, they don't move very fast. And I've also kept cottonmouths. Coppers are way better. In attitude and beauty. And their venom being very mild is just a plus. As far as picking up a Northern, you can't do that at Hamburg. They're a native species. But there are always plenty of southerns, BB's and some Trans Pecos there. Getting a baby can be challenging if it hasn't started eating yet. And they're somewhat quicker and harder to maneuver when they're babies. If you can find one that's about 18-20 inches or so, it might be better. That's just my opinion. But at that stage, they're well established and large enough to handle easily. Hope that helps.

I would have to disagree about coppers being slower and less spastic then cottonmouths. Copperhead can be EXTREAMLY fast and I have had more headaches with them then with any other pitviper/Viper (and I have kept many different sp!). Babies are down right horrible at times and even adults, esecially WC A.c.contortrix go ape sh!t when disturbed. Ive had many that would come flying out of their cage the second its open and god forbid one hits the ground in your snake room! On a few occasions I have had to dig them out from under a rack or table because of this very senario and talk about a pain! I think I spent 30 mins on my hand and knees trying to fish out a juvi intergrade mokasen/contortrix! God that sucked!

Also, Wit Gibbons did an expeiment between native Crotalus, Sisturus and Agkistrodon and out of every snake he tested, copperhead were hands down the quickest to strike first when restrained or trodden upon!

Also, copperheads are much slimer and agile then there lumbering brothren the cottonmouth and although, as you said, many are down right tame, the few exception (and every one found in NC! I think theres somthing funky in the water there that gets the chunkers pycho!)are absolutly horrible!!! I have never had any problems with cottonmouths that could even compare to the most miniscule tango session with a chunkhead.

As for which sp is more rewarding, thats up to the person. I personaly love both but think cotton are alot easier to deal with, most of the times. Though I have yet to see the tame cotton, I have never seen a spastic one even come close to a copper. Although their colors generaly are drap, their size more then makes up for it, especially when you have a 5ft monster like I do:-D And you call your self the Kottonmouthking:-D

No matter what though, neither can compare to a Cantil!! Now thats a freaken crazy snake!! Although my taylori arent all that spastic(Ive been told im lucky though!), they will lunge off of the ground everytime trying to bite you!! Bloody nutty snakes but man they rock! The dang thing death roll their food regularly and do thing a Bothrops asper would be proud of! Actually, according to some herpitoligist, Cantils are more feared within their range then asper! Yikes!!!!

Ok, enough Agkistrodon talk for now:-D

Cottons rule!

Later,
J

I've found piscivorus to be much calmer than contortrix in general. Contortrix are pretty quick when they want to be and are usually much more willing to strike. Even when I encounter piscivorus in the wild and move them for photos or relocation, it's rare that they even strike. In general, cottons hook better too...some contortrix can be notoriously difficult to keep on a hook. Of course, everyone's experiences differ and each individual animal can behave different from the next.
I'm not trying to steer you away from copperheads (they're probably my favorite venomous snake.) They make great captives and are relatively easy to work with if you give them the respect they deserve.
Good luck,
Chris

my personal experiance is tha coppers are a pain to hook and try to bite you every chance they get, again not to discourage you just my experiance. my wife on the other hand has had wonderful experiance with coppers, she currantly has 3 and adores them they actually behave for her, me on the other can barely hook them so it also depends on the person.
just my 2cents
dave