Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone!
I didn't find the section of presentation thus I present myself here. My name is Anna, I'm italian and I live in France. My english is very bad, so I am helped by a translator on line. Four years ago, I've had my first snake, a Pituophis c. sayi, and I like Pituophis so much that I have 7 of them now, of which : 5 Bull Snakes and 2 Northern Pine Snakes.
It's about my 3 young "Kingsville" Bulls, born in USA in 2010, that I ask you to help me.
I wanted Kingsville Bull Snakes but I didn't found them in France.
One day I contacted the owner of the bigger reptiles shop of France, to know if it were possible for them to import of Kingsville.
He told me to have of Pituophis C. sayi “flame” and which he would have asked more information to the importer, to know their locality.
Two days later he told me that they were Kingsville bulls, from the stock of John Ginter.

I show you some photos of them, I'm not sure they are pure Kingsville, perhaps they aren't Kingsville! Same, I think that my male could be a Stillwater Hypobull.

Please, could you help me to know what they are?
Thank you in advance

ps; the red ones are the females

Hi Anna,

They are not pure Kingsville reds. If I'm right "flame bulls" are a cross between Kingsville Red and Stillwater hypo.
I know an English guy who also bought one of those animals from Karim.
Anyway, nice animals.

I agree with John.

They are not pure Kingsville Reds. The look like Hypo Red Bulls from a Kingsville Red X Hypo Stillwater project. So Hypo Reds or Flames.

Jason

Thak you Jason,

two identical answers: It's ok for me, now I know what they are.
I hope that one day Karim will import some of the beautiful forms and localities of bulls from your collection!

I was sure that StillwaterXKingsville's were fires??

Hi John

thank you for your quick answer! Mines too come from the Ferme Tropicale. Fortunately there is Karim who imports Pituophis, others than classic, albinos or white-sided forms (for Bulls) that you can find more esasily. I whas looking for the very red Kingsville how you can see on Envyreptiles website, this is my dream. I had contacted Jason but he told me that he can't export and, anyway, shipping would be too expensive! Peraphs one day I will arrive to have a couple of them...
I come back to mine Flames. I don't know if they result from the same range and I would reproduce them in 2 or 3 years: which would be the result?

Hi Nina,

I have no idea what would be the result from a "flame" x "flame" breeding.
What concerns importing from the US, there is always a possibility.
I live in Belgium and can give you the e-mail adress of someone who did it for me in 2010.
Its someone in Germany and you will need to pick up the snakes in Hamm.
Perfect service at a serious price.
Send me a PM and I will give you more information.

Ok, thank you John

great looking snakes Anna. I'm happy you ended up with them. There are definitely from my Stillwater hypo sayi X Kingsville TX red sayi blood line. They are offspring of my best "flame" pair. don't worry about getting pure Kingsville Tx Reds and pure Stillwater OK hypos. I should have plenty in 2012 and we will try to get some to you. I don't have very many morph lines of Pituophis but my collections and offerings include mostly locality specific lines of all but two of the living recognized species and subspecies so let me know if you are interested in other forms as well....

ginter

Hy John Ginter! I'm glad to know finally the true origins of my flame Bulls, thank you for your intervention.
It's sure that I'm interested to have true Kingsville Tx red and Stillwater, and other forms too and I'm not the only one! I try, with other people, to better do to know and appreciate Pituophis in France and it is not easy. Pituophis have a bad reputation as aggressive snakes or not interesting enough like morhs and/or localities.
I go to send you a PM.

Your snakes are awesome!
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Sorry you did not get true Kingsville reds from Ginter's stock. Alot of people here recklessly misrepresent the outcrossed animals as locale specific. You are a perfect example of a victim of misrepresentation. Anybody on KS want to beat me up on this topic now! I am embarrassed for the "pit"sellers of U.S. community. Maybe now some of you will get what I have been trying to convey. Your bulls are beautiful by the way and best of luck finding true Kingsville reds!

Kingsville x Stillwater = Fire?

I discover many things here!

TWRECKS, the next time I will buy a Pituophis of importation, I will search more information on the animal and parents too. It always would be better to see animals before and take more informations about but it wasn't possible for me. So one must trust an importer, an owner and a seller and that is my case.
If it had been the case of Kingsnakes or a Milksnakes born in Europe, that would have been simpler, you can find these species more easily than Bulls, Gopher or Pines snakes.

ps.: my females have a strange detail: a white task instead of the frontal scale. Have you already seen that?

I haven't observed many of those crosses up close. I haven't seen that detail. I hope you find someone who can help you attain some nice Kingsville reds.

Yes, I hope too. I was looking for a locality and not a morph and my objective remains to have pure localities for Red Bulls and or Yellows.