I was surprised yesterday with an early Christmas present, a "mated pair" of albino California kingsnakes. I am a little dubious of the "mated pair" part because I know they are cannibalistic and am thinking of separating them, they were in the same cage. That's a different story though. I can't figure out what they exactly are. I've been looking around the internet and they don't look like normal albinos. They don't have any yellow bands or black stripes. They are pure white with a faint yellow-gold stripe down their spines and they have reddish pink eyes. I have narrowed it down to maybe white-sided, very high white or just a special albino. Other than the color they look just like kingsnakes. Any ideas? The stripe is so faint you can really only see it in the light.
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"Whitesided?" "High White?" "Albino?"
Replies (26)
Well you opened up an old subject and one that has been discussed here too mmany times.
Kingsnakes do and can be bonded at a young age. Tehy will not eat each other.
Maybe that is what the seller meant?
To give you an idea. I have had hundreds of pairs kept togther year round for over 10 years with zero intaces of cannibalism. They even share their food.
Though many here who have no experience with bonding will tell you to never take the chance. I'M SURE THEY WILL CHIME IN. They are giving opinions with no experience with bonding or bonded pairs, trios ect. THEY will tell you that if something is not broken, don't fix it. Or that they are called "KINGsnakes" for a reason (LOL!). Also they will tell you that why take a chance and so on..but none of what they tell you comes from any experince with BONDED kingsnakes. ZERO nda, zilch. They just don't want to try something new. And some have been doing it one way for decades. So why should they change the way they keep thir snakes?
Bonding starts at a yound age (NOT ADULTS) and should start during the brumation period. Once kingsnakes are bonded they share their food and even if one hastlity latches onto another by mistake during feeding, they let go.
Anyway, there is lots to say about bonding and it has been covered here with sevral poster with strong opinions against it. But they are giving advice from something ethey know nothing about ecept maybe they had a king canniblize another once and draw from that and not from teh bonding process.
Bonded kingsnakes make things a lot easier when it comes to breeding season . No worries about a mate eating another when you introduce them in the spring for breeding. wWhich happens often with people who don't bond their naimals and follow the old recipe for disaster...also with bonded pairs you can do take the guesswork out of when a female is ovulating and thus not missing the window to get her eggs properly fertilized (less duds or infertile eggs) also , this is the best part,.. You can get as many as 3 clucthes per year because the snakes know when to breed. No missing that ovulation window by moving the male back and forth from the famales cage and back again.
Think of this. If Kingsnakes eat each other they would not be found together in the wild and there would be extinct.
So if your pair has been together for while. Keep them well fed (offer food at least twice a week) because even humans cannibalize when fed a starvation diet. You have to keep the snakes well fed and not one mouse once per week like the pet shops will tell you.
As far as what type of king. You need to post a picture.
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The economy is so bad even Apple lost Jobs.
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Fools rush in where angels fear to tread....oh, well, my one cent (not experienced enough to have two cents) opinion :
The only thing that has happened with my mountain kings cohabitating is they have bred successfully. I feed them often, as much as they want at a feeding, and have everybody the same size. I introduce them in the fall when they are ready for brumation. Once the pairs or trios are set up they stay together, except when the female is gravid and she gets a maternity tub to lay her clutch in private.
Now this cohabitating thing may turn out to be like the guy who has fallen off a tall building, and as he passes each floor says "So far so good...so far so good.."
One of my yearling trios. Pyros are less likely to cannibalize, but still one must assure nobody is too hungry.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"
"We are like children, who stand in need of masters to enlighten us and direct us"
Thomas aquinas
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The economy is so bad even Apple lost Jobs.
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>>
>>"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"
>>
>>
>>"We are like children, who stand in need of masters to enlighten us and direct us"
>>Thomas aquinas
No.......we need to learn the animals ourselves and don't have to follow anyone's recipe for their definition of success.
-John Lassiter
Hahahahahaha........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
No.......we need to learn the animals ourselves and don't have to follow anyone's recipe for their definition of success.
That is 100% corect.
But this place can't stand it when they demand FR or myself to give them an answer.
So sorry buds. You can't have your cake and eat it to.
Get in line and learn the same way we did. With little tidbits of information which you should dig and dig. Hang onto the words by FR and myself. In the end you will come out a lot more informed than if i just told you a recipe.
It's like if I told you where to find a rare species of snake. i say go down this hwy and turn on this dirt road, stop at the cactus tree and turn the thrid rock on the right. LOL!
You will never learn that way. But that is what these folks want.And because they are groms they will not learn anything until they respect.
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFk2_5RkwlA[/url]
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The economy is so bad even Apple lost Jobs.
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What I was referring to when I said fools rush in was responding to the thread about bonding which generally does lead to contention, not the information itself.
I learn the most from simply observing my snakes, but also appreciate being able to read about others' experiences. I mainly follow the lead of my snakes.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
I noticed, sorry for opening the can of worms guys!
I have never owned a kingsnake before, my experience lies with three ball pythons who are lazy couch potatoes compared to these guys. They do seem very attached to each other, after reading your post, Bluerosy,and seeing Pyro's picture, I think I am going to keep them together but get a bigger cage unless something happens. The person who bought the snakes for me didn't ask very many questions about them. I just talked to the breeder myself, she said that they have always been together and they have been bred before. She said they are Snow California kings. I don't have a camera and my phone is broken but I'll put up pictures anyway when I can if anyone wants to see them. Sorry for the heated discussion everyone and thanks for your advice.
Don't worry about opening the can O worms. That's something that's not going to stop here on this forum. Look at it as getting a balanced report. Rosy will only say great things about anything he does so take it with a grain of salt. I will tell you it can be done, I have done it in the past and I am currently housing a trio of adult Brooks together since last winter. I do have lot's of others to replace them should something go wrong, and I do realize there is a risk. I did loose cage mates in the past, as well as others on this forum. That is the only reason we step in to give new keepers both sides of the issue. Rosy did post a long list a while back of all the do's and don'ts, I wish I would hae saved it. He mentioned some already.
introduce them during winter,
don't bond them as adults,
never bond hatchlings,
feed them all they can devour,
snakes should be about the same size,
there was more but I can't remember all of it. All these things are to reduce the chances of one eating the other. They do eventually become comfortable with each other and this does take the guess work out of breeding, but don't get too busy and forget to feed them, cause their instincts will kick in. Again enjoy, and post some pics when you get a chance. I'd love to se them.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
" ....but don't get too busy and forget to feed them, cause their instincts will kick in. "
Yep, the one word many forget bro!:
Instinct!
The " feed them all they can eat " mentality is just a preventative to the natural instincts they will act upon. Stuff them as much as possible so they do not act out what their instincts tell them to do.
All more the reason that proves that the bonding theory is child's play from wanna-be internet manipulators.
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Genesis 1:1
Sounds like what you have is a Blizzard cal king, showing both hypermelanism and albino at the same time. The term "snow" cal king is inaccurate.
Blizzards can and do show some markings.
A picture will confirm what you have.
Good luck housing 2 cal kings together.
Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.
My 08 trio this last spring taking care of business. They were brumated together and when they came out of brumation I really threw the food at them. They made some nice babies.
Since your Cal kings have always been together, most likely they will continue to be fine together. A nice big cage with lots of places to hole up in is a good idea, whether or not you co-habitate them.
Am looking forward to some pics of your new snakes.
I am imagining they look like this. This is not my snake. I only have pyro kings, and bull snakes and gopher snakes. I co-habitate the pits as well.
I do think that lumping all kings together as to proclivities is sort of like doing the same with dogs, even though there is a considerable difference amongst them, like pit bulls vs chihuahuas, for example.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
holy fat lumps batman!
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The economy is so bad even Apple lost Jobs.
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Is that a piece of foam pipe insulation that was painted white with a yellow stripe???!!!...YIKES!!!
I bet if you bent this foam into a 6 inch radius it wouldn't have as many wrinkles and lumps as that one does!
Was that one fed on the "as much as it wants every other day diet" too??..HAHAA!!
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
DOUG,
THOSE FAT LUMPS ARE GENETIC AND NOT FROM OVERFEEDING.
HA HA HA HA!
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The economy is so bad even Apple lost Jobs.
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"DOUG,
THOSE FAT LUMPS ARE GENETIC AND NOT FROM OVERFEEDING.
HA HA HA HA!'
RAINER,
YEAH, IT'S GENETIC PRE-DISPOSITION TO STORE FAT FROM EATING MORE THAN IT NEEDS!
HA HA HA HA!
knock off the lame attempt at being a wealth of snake knowledge,....it ain't workin' so good for ya..LOL!
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
You know thats not true about it eating to much. Those lumps genetic fat deposits. No matter how small a meal and how few. It will always have them.
I hope you are just blowing smoke and are not serious about your BS? Cause, I think you know better which means your BS has brought you to a new low..
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The economy is so bad even Apple lost Jobs.
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I only used this lumpy king photo to show the color. The poor fellow is quite the Orson Wells of snakes. LOL! I have a breeder friend who has a lumpy female pyro; she was born that way and reproduces fine, although using her as a breeder makes me cringe. But none of her descendents have shown the lumpy thing.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
Its yes, its from more energy taken in, then is being used. EATING TO MUCH.
The problem is actually not about eating to much, its about not being able to expend energy. That animal has been chronically undermetabolized. That is, not allowed to reach full operating temps.
So no, its actually not from eating to much, in that sense.
Normally, snakes do not store fat in that manner, that is rarely if ever seen in nature. Yet there plenty of really fat snakes in nature.
With that in mind, storing fat that way, should be considered a sickness and not treated as normal.
The primary cause is a not being able to reach preferred basking temps, therefore below normal body temps.
That combined with habitual feeding, that is, the keeper feeding on a set schedule. You know like every three days or even once a week(depending on temps) Without consideration for activity. Simply put, if its an adult snake and its not breeding or active, then it does not have to be fed much at all. An adult like that one could be fed five to tens times a year and will hold its weight well.
So if the keeper refuses to raise the temps, then the keeper needs to feed less. So in the end, its about overfeeding, if the keeper is not supporting the animals temp needs. I think one should consider the temps they CHOOSE as normal. So with that in mind, in most cases its not overfeeding. Its really not about what temps WE choose to give them, is it?
"So with that in mind, in most cases its not overfeeding. Its really not about what temps WE choose to give them, is it?"
So, it's not over feeding and not temps???
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Gerard
"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"
"Think of this. If Kingsnakes eat each other they would not be found together in the wild and there would be extinct."
Could you please elaborate a little on this one. I laugh every time I see you pose this scenario; maybe I'm missing something here.
Kings (and other snakes that eat snakes) are often found under cover with other types of snakes that they prey on, yet those prey snakes are not extinct. Why is it that you believe if kingsnakes were cannabalistic they would be extinct???
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Joe
He said so that's why. It could have been FR that told him but who cares. The best thing about them is they say one thing then forget that's the path they choose and say the opposite. It's so much fun to read. How's that albino doing?
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Gerard
"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"
Yeah Joe,....I guess it's the very same reason that crocodiles, lions, spiders, bears, Preying Mantis, fish, or just about any other animals you could possibly think of are all extict now too...HAHAHA!!!!!!
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
HA HA! I can't stop laughing!
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Genesis 1:1
If there is a line down the center over the spine, then you can be safe to call them Albino californias. They may have come from a line of high whites as you mentioned, but that will be difficult to determine I think? As for the BONDING thing, make an educated choice and ultimately you take the risk. If you follow Bluerosies advice ask him for the long list of do's and don'ts to make sure you reduce the risk of canibalism as much as possible. Other than that, enjoy!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
There is no "risk". Why and how do you think i have kept thousands of pairs for almost 19 years. The people taking risks are the ones who do not bond. The snakes eat each other when you introduce unkown unbonded kings to each other duing breeding season. Lets do the math and look at the statistics.My thousands of ikings for almost 2 decades versus how many snakes have people lost on this forum due to canniblasim because they put 2 kings together that are not bonded.
I can tell you the answer and you already know it. There are a LOT of cases every year where even experinced herptoctutursits lose snakes do to cannibalsm during breeding season.
Lets look at the risks and weigh them again.
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The economy is so bad even Apple lost Jobs.
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