Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am expecting another exciting year in 2012 with respect to milk snake breedings. Here's what I have going next year.

Show us what cool things you are breeding next year.

Amherst County VA triangulum

Female

Male

Jefferson Parish LA amaura

Female

Male

Pinstripe Annulata

Female

Male

Tyrrell county NC temporalis

Female

Male

Calvert county MD Hypo temporalis

Female

Male

Syspila pair #1

Female

Male

Syspila pair #2

Female

Male

Cosala locality Sinaloans

Female #1

Female #2

Male

Dave

DNS Reptiles - Milk Snakes

Gad, those Cosala animals are incredible! Likewise the tempos and annulata!
I have a plan for locality amaura - let's keep in touch when the eggs hatch...
-Jeff

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Let there be triangulum and lo, the milkhead was born.

You got it Jeff! Let's keep our fingers crossed those amaura produce something this year.

Dave

Dave, those are all awesome critters. Looks like you have lots of pretty babies coming your way. Those syspila are sick!! If these warm temps keep up I am not sure I will have anything breeding next year!! LOL. I might be clearing the basement fridge out again.

Joe

Joe no kidding. Temps have been in low to mid 60s in the basement this November. Hoping for a chilly December and January! I think they'll be fine.

Good luck with your stuff. What do you have breeding next year?

Dave

Dave, I not sure exactly what I am going to breed yet. Lots of zonata pairings, alomost every sub of them. I have a pair of alterna (Hwy 277) that are ready. Lots of locality LTT, eastern kings, prairie kings, pyros. I have some mexican pines that are proven, extreme hondos (yours)--- Hell, not sure what I am pairing up yet. I am probably going to reduce my collection a little next year as it is becoming too much work and I do this for the fun of it. Problem is I like ALL of my snakes to much and as we all know it is hard to narrow the field!!!

Joe

Sounds like you've got a great 2012 lined up depending on what you choose to breed. I didn't realize you had all those zonata in your collection. Very cool.

Dave

After getting mates for my recent acquisitions of a female hondo and abnorma a pair of those Cosala locality Sinaloans are next... unless of course I should stumble across some micropholis.

Very handsome animals Dave... love the clean, crisp looks of them... funny since I'm such a fan of the heavy black tipping other milks south of the border are known for.

Wish I could say I had something lined up for next year but with the exception of my adult Black Milk Jade everything I have is too young... but I'll be around for awhile,so keep asking

Gerry

That I would like to see.LOL.....

L8r Shannon

That's more like it... tell me why it is you don't believe what I have isn't a true abnorma?

Same goes for anyone else with an opinion on the matter... when I made the original post I was looking forward to all replies, both yea and nay... still am, so let's hear the opinions/observations/rebuttals/etc... send an email if you think your observations may offend anyone other than myself... I am always interested in what others think.

Gerry

My wife always calls me that, but adds a letter.
Abnorma---------------L.

That's the only abnorma I have too, the one with the added letter. Me, according to my wife.

Gerry, Rest assured that the abnorma you have ARE the real deal, as I have siblings to yours from the same individual, whom I have known as a lifeling friend for 30+ years. John F.

Yep,....that is a fact. The L.t.abnorma that Gerry has is indeed as genuinely authentic as they come....period!. I am very familiar with them and there origin...

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I had, nor have, any doubts concerning either the snakes authenticity or Scott's word on them. The reason I asked for other opinions wasn't to help dispel doubts I was mistakenly perceived to have... just simply wanted to hear opinions either way... bring a little more conversation into the group regarding "real deal" ssp's.

Perhaps Shannon didn't see my post of the abnorma and hondo females as it was made during his hospital stay... I'm sure he had better things to worry about. Perhaps he did see it but has doubts, if that is true I'd like to hear why.

Gerry

Yeah, The reason I said that was cause I only know of one single person with the real deal in the hobby and I wasn't aware that he had let any out.I know many people think they have abnorma when what they have are bi-colored polyzona from guatamala.Thats why I said what I said.
Congrats on the fact you have the real deal.You are very lucky.

L8r Shannon

Yeah, I knew that was exactly why you said that as well.

Yep, historically, most that are usually "thought" to be L.t.abnorma in this country are bi-colored polyzona originating from northwestern Guatemala, when in fact the true abnorma are from central Guatemala where polyzona, blanchardi, and hondurensis don't come into contact with the abnorma. As you know, good examples have very high RBR counts and are MUCH, MUCH cleaner looking and tend to stay that way through adulthood.

There used to be some genuine lines here, but sadly they have all but totally disappeared into the "hobby Hondo" melting pot stew. Other than this bloodline, the last true abnorma I ever saw where Jim Mabe's back in 1995 JUST as many of those got mucked-up forever from being crossed. The pair I got from him that I later sold suffered the very same fate too,...guaranteed!. I sold the pair to a locale pet shop, and they most likely got sold seperately to people that had no idea what to do with them. If they DID ever get bred, you can bet it was to a hobby Hondo someone had..

cheers, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks Shannon, and yes I realize I'm lucky... I was surprised to be offered some of these near impossible to find subspecies. I guess it pays to be known for having a passion and appreciation for the Central and South American Milks.

Perhaps it's time to renew my efforts in finding true micropholis... haven't tried that in a couple of years because even I can recognize a lost cause.

Gerry

Yep I hear that,

I have been looking for true Micro's since about 1992.My first price lists (pre-internet) even had it listed at the bottom that I was looking for Micro's,abnorma,blanchardi,dixoni and smithi.
I am still looking for most.LOL.....

Good luck and let me know if you have any leads.

I even hit europe real hard about five or six years ago and had several people looking like crazy over there and thats how we ended up with the Salina Cruz oligozona and the Acapulco conanti etc thats now well established in the country.
Every time I had a good lead on micro's it ended up a dead end.I am sure that somebody that isn't really connected with the rest of the herp world has some real micros sitting in there closed.LOL....I hope so I should say.

When I bought some "smithi" way back in the day they ended up being ruthveni from the far east of there range (Jalapan).

Even true Hondurensis are next to impossible to find.I have just a trio of true blue het for nothing perfect hondos.

L8r Shannon

Okay good sir, I'll play your crazy game. I don't have a lot of time right now, as I'm in-between writing a study guide for my students and grading their papers...so this will be off the top of my head and without photos (I'll post photo pairings later).

Hypo prairie kings (joint effort between Mr. Niles and I) - these should be awesome.
Mole kings - generic NC stock
Mole kings - Leon Co., FL

Mex-mex - black phase
Gray-banded kingsnakes - Blair's phase

Cosala sinaloan milks - thanks Dave!
Pale milks - Big Horn and Powder River Co.'s, MT
Red milks - Marion Co., Jefferson Co., another locale-specific pairing, and hypos
New Mexico milks - Black Gap, Christmas mtns, and Alpine
Louisiana milks - generic between two locales
Mexican milks - pinband apricots
Utah milks - Garfield Co., CO
Central Plains milks - Ellsworth Co., KS
Eastern milks - Montgomery and Baltimore Co.'s, MD
Coastal Plains milks - St. Mary's Co., MD (2 lines)

Western hognose
Pacific Gopher snakes - hypo striped morphs
Blonde Trans Pecos rats
Axanthic Trans Pecos rats

Rubber boas

Coast mountain kingsnakes (4 locales - 7 females)
Sierra mountain kingsnakes (3 females; 2 black-and-whites, one Tuolumne Co.)
Diablo mountain kingsnakes (2 females)

Corn snakes (28 pairings)

I think that's it...maybe...

2013's probably really going to suck, as I'll have potentially thirty-plus virgin females going for their first time.

Didn't you learn anything this summer with all those fussy little hatchlings you produced? lol I gues not! I really don't know how you do it.

Mitch that is one hell of a list there! Some great stuff. I'm excited about our joint hypo prairie king project for sure.

When is your website going to be up and running?

Dave
DNS Reptiles - Milk Snakes

Cool idea, Dave! You've got a hell of a nice line-up there, man.

Here's what I'm looking at:

- Probably about a dozen or so localities of multistrata
- A similar number of gentilis
- Several localities of gentilisXmultistrata intergrades
- A number of other, "odds-and-ends" NA milk localities (such as various syspila, celaenops, etc.)
- Salina Cruz, Oaxaca, Mexico oligozonaXconantiXcampbelli
- "Old-School", non-crossed Zapotitlan campbelli
- A single locality of zonata
- Generic nelsoni
- Generic Rubber Boas
- A litter of Amazon Tree Boas
- Random Crested Geckos that hatch from eggs laid by the pair that graces my office vivarium
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_______________________

-Cole

Very nice Cole. You're almost as bad as Mitch with all those babies!! ha ha ha

Sounds like you're in for another great year. You consistently produce some of the nicest gentilis and multistrata around. I think its cool you're working with those peublans. And I didn't know you had nelsoni?

Dave

I have some more outcrossing planned for my male Tricolor Mega Het Snow.

I have the following virgin females to try next year (all big MAYBEs):

Ghost 50% Het Amel

Hybino Het Hypo-e (Anery)

Snow 50% Het Hypo (Poss Pearl)

I will also be putting him back to the same two females from this year...I'm hoping to score more of these guys!!!

I also hope to produce a few Western Hog clutches...but that will be breaking new ground...I don't have any experience with breeding hogs at all.

Hog Male Conda 50% Het Amel

Hog Females, Amel and Normal (yes, they are both much bigger now!)

Good subject Dave...thanks for getting it started!

-Rusty

It's always a treat to view those "megas". Sounds like you could have a banner year coming up.

--Dennis

I hope so, if I just get a few key neonates next year, I'll consider it a success!

-R