Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My hubby says my milksnakes are not the same as kingsnakes or are just wimpy versions and probably wouldnt eat other snakes very often if at all.I think he doesnt like the name "milksnake" sounds kinda lame compared to "kingsnake"..
Okay so this is just a silly argument, he hasnt a clue about snakes.But that being said of all the kingsnakes and milksnakes which are the most likely to eat other snakes???
Is there a specific locality that would be "bad*ss" and more likely to dine on other snakes?

Sorry this is just stupid banter but I would be interested to know too..

Either kings or milks can have the potential to eat other snakes.

With that being said, I will say, I know of California kings, Florida kings, and Eastern kings being pretty brutal, when it came to devouring other snakes. Easterns especially.

Not a bad question at all! Hope this helps!
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Genesis 1:1

Some of the smaller North American Milks are almost exclusive Snake, and or Lizard eaters! Just go to the milk Snake forum and ask some of the breeders there and you'll see.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

I will settle your argument with a pic of a w/c eastern milk that came across a slightly smaller eastern milk.

Long story, but the larger snake was brought home to confirm what I thought had happened because I had seen the smaller snake under the same board that very same morning. Bigger snake hungry, smaller snake dead.

I've seen / experienced the exact same scenario with eastern kings. I don't think there is any single explanation of why this sometimes does or does not happen.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

Obviously that smaller snake was from an outside gang. Serves him right to tread on the bigger ones territory. He was even wearing the same colors as if to mock him! Great pic Joe!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

Theres a few different things going on here. first the work cannibil is a bit confusing, because it means consuming the SAME. That is, eating animals in your group, tribe, species, cult.

You see, animals and primitive humans do not read our books, so they do not know that the OTHERS are the same. That is, a kingsnake does not know that a cornsnake is, WELL A Snake, its just prey. That said, It also does not know that a kingsnake from another colony is the same. it does know that its mate and offspring are the same, most likely be smell, but that does not matter. What matters is the understanding of THE SAME.

You see the problem is humans being selfcentered, we named these animals, then we discribe these animals by our names. Anthropromorphic.

Yet these animals do not read, or watch TV or go to school, or read books or watch TV, so they really do not understand what we call cannibilism. If its prey, they eat it, there is no thought process as to our difintion of what is cannibilism.

Do snakes eat other snakes, yes, amoung our kingsnakes, getula appears to be more prone to snakes, and eastern types more prone then western types. But as mentioned, all kingsnakes can consume other snakes.

In fact, kingsnakes are not the most specialized at that. Corals, ringnecks, longnose, racers and coachwhips, and of course the best we have in the states Indigos, are big time snake consumers.

Back to cannibilism. that term is based on people eating people. Mainly because we do not consider people animals.

Primitive tribes consumed members of other tribes, as they considered them, just other animals. Somehow civilied man does not.

So is a coyoted eating a fox cannibilism? Or a fish that eats another fish? A lizard that eats other lizards, wow this is funny

All in all, kingsnakes are not cannibils because they do not consume their mates. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I agree with your husband, milksnakes are whimpy but not to mice? Cheers and just food for thought

.

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

This ...

It also does not know that a kingsnake from another colony is the same. it does know that its mate and offspring are the same, most likely be smell, but that does not matter. What matters is the understanding of THE SAME.

Should not have to be explained to anyone with any common sense.
But it should be a sticky for the "professionals" in this forum. LOL!
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www.Bluerosy.com

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So they are loyal husbands and Dads? Awe, that's so cute! Too bad there's no evidence for it, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

There is evidence everywhere, you are just to focused on what you what to look at it. You just want to believe what you what. Oh God, they are kingsnakes, so they eat eachother
Did you ever go to field forums? How come they put boardlines, or ac(artificial cover) in certain places to catch kings. That is, when they are put in the right place, they find many many kingsnakes. Yet if you put them somewhere else, they don't?
How come, Bluerosy and I do not have the problems you THINK we are suppose to have? This is a very good question? We do nothing but take a little care about how to pair them up, then the animals do the rest. And as mentioned, I have been doing this for over 4 decades, WITH KINGSNAKES.(getula)
Why don't you let the dang snake be the dang snakes and lay off controlling every thing in their lifes. LET THEM BE SNAKES.
This is by far the worse part, your so egotistical, you think you know more about the snakes then the snakes do. That is funny to me. You know the common sense thing that Bluerosy just mentioned. Well, you cannot keep any social animal and raise it in solitary confinment, then once its an adult EXPECT it to be social. Not humans, not mammals, not birds, and not reptiles, heck not even insects.
Try breeding crickets, raise them in colonies and they place one from one group into the other group, well, it is all of a sudden FOOD. They eat it, same for mice.
So why not test it, you know raise some babies together. Then give them bigger boxes and watch and enjoy and have fun and LEARN
Its funny but when I moved from being a snake guy, to a monitor guy, I rocked that world with what I learned from kingsnakes. Wait, once a fella had some monitors and they did something, but the books said those monitors did not do what he saw them do. So that fella asked me, which should I believe.
This is the problem here, you have no idea what the subject is, ITS THE ANIMALS. What they do is right, and has explaination. What we write is merely a guess at what they do.
Biology has skipped over reptile behavior, it/we know so little about it. Its only recently that its starting to be undercovered.
The problem was, we as humans, expected primitive animals such as snakes to be behaviorally simple. The actual problem is, they are behaviorally and socially COMPLICATED. So science missed it for years and years.
Let me remind you, These cannibilistic snakes have exsisted for many of thousands of years, before you came along, or even man came along. They have lived and reproduced, and prospered, all without your help.
As Bluerosy mentioned, if they were truely cannibilistic, how come they do not consume all the others in their colonies. How come you can find them TOGETHER, like more then one under the same board? OVER AND OVER. How come there are HOT spots for finding them in nature? YOu know, if you go over there, you will find kingsnakes????

Edited on November 29, 2011 at 01:04:09 by PHFaust.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1955924,1955932

Also, what about Komodo Dragons????? I'm pretty sure that the adults eat the young of there own kind.

Also,

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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

He only sees what he wants to see then accuses others of doing it too, lol. Rats will care for Rat babies from other colonies, but mice won't! Imagine that, they are different. Just like Kings and Rattle snakes which is where DR get's most of this bonding stuff from. You can't study Rattlers and say Kings are the same! Rattlers don't eat each other! If you fish with a net that has 1 inch holes, you can't conclude that there are no fish smaller than 1 inch in the Sea! See?!?!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com

" If you fish with a net that has 1 inch holes, you can't conclude that there are no fish smaller than 1 inch in the Sea! See?!? "

Wise words from someone ( Jorge ) with a much better reputation then the self-appointed experts on this forum!
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Genesis 1:1

Funny but I breed mice, produce aprox 6000 plus a week, and my mice can be mixed and matched without problem. How does that work? Easy, I raise them in large groups, then they know how to work in a group.

This is what you have no understanding of. These animals LEARN to go along with instint. But then, you have no concept of learning so i would not expect you would think animals learn. Cheers

Never had one eat another. So because you haven't seen it it hasn't happened.
If america was still primitive you would be eaten because your an idiot. Frank your not even good at arguing a point. If you practice you might get a message through but your to weak. Just like Rainer! Can't stand to have someone disagree so you stick your fingers in your ears and scream"I can't hear you" over and over. Hahahahahahaha!
What a
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

" How come you can find them TOGETHER, like more then one under the same board? OVER AND OVER. How come there are HOT spots for finding them in nature? YOu know, if you go over there, you will find kingsnakes???? "

OF course there are times that you can find them together, just like there are times you can find them eating other snakes.

They are under the same board because they are utilizing a safe hide in an area of habitat.

Duh.

You really need to grow up, act your age, and stop using the internet for a playground. Funny how you choose the facts of Science to go on long-winded rants for one thing, but are not utilizing the facts of Science to be fair in an assessment on a topic on other sides of viewpoints. If you did, maybe there would be those out there that WOULD take into consideration the things you say, along with your tall tales.

Grow up.

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Genesis 1:1

It's funny, when I saw your collection in the early 80's you weren't keeping kings together.

He's just been talking crap the whole time??? Awesome!!!
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Gerard

"I am the one that hides the universal secret of all time"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

"Should not have to be explained to anyone with any common sense.
But it should be a sticky for the "professionals" in this forum. LOL!"

Dude, you constantly say some of the DUMBEST things I have ever read in my entire life.

If you consider yourself "professional", and I'm SUUUUUURE YOU DO!..HHAHAA!!!, many others have a very different opinion because of the way that you conduct yourself. I guarantee that the term "PROFESSIONAL" is the very LAST thing that comes to mind when people read the stupid things you constantly say here.

I have seen kids on the corner with a lemonade stand that show 100 times more "professionalism" than you ever could..HAHAHAA!!

THAT is what should be a "sticky"..LOL!!
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Nice to see you to staying on topic again. LOL!

I guess the next thing you always say is you don't respond to my posts anymore. HA HA HA! But every SINGLE TIME i post, there you are posting stuff that has nothing to do with the topic.

For a guy who lives in an Apt with a few snakes. You sure talk an aweful lot. But then you don't really say anything of substance.

But when I meet you in person you manage to keep your trap shut pretty well. Why is that?

Doug Mong-The Ultimate keyboard warrior troll!
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www.Bluerosy.com

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See, that has always been your major problem. You "think" you know everything, when you don't know jack! You don't know anything about where I live, or what snakes I have either.

Ask Gerard, Jorge, or Rusty Green(RG on the milk forum), etc.. and they will tell you what I live in. It's a big luxury townhome Rainer that is probably worth five times what your place is. And before I lived here, I lived in another luxury townhome right on A1-A in Indian Harbour Beach on the same barrier island about 2 miles away.

Anyway, no biggie, I don't need to make myself "seem" awesome all the time like you do..LOL!

Don't flatter yourself either and think I follow you around and comment on "every post" you make. I ignore the majority of them actually because they are usually just about how awesome you think you are..LOL! It just so happens that the majority of your posts are nothing but obnoxious insults that seem to make you feel more "awesome" about yourself. So now and then I may comment on how childish they are. It only seems like I comment on all of them because so many of your comments are childish and stupid is all.

Anyway, have fun with all of the insults you make to everyone Mr. "professional"..HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

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www.Bluerosy.com

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FR said:
>>It also does not know that a kingsnake from another colony is the same. What matters is the understanding of THE SAME...
... If its prey, they eat it, there is no thought process as to our difintion of what is cannibilism.

But we're humans here discussing an issue, so "snake language" is irrelevant. Bacteria don't understand the concept of infection, but they infect us nontheless. It doesn't matter what a snake's thinking, or what its motivation is, or what its consciousness is, when it eats another snake. Doesn't matter.

The second definition of "cannibalism", in the first online dictionary i turned to, is "the eating of the flesh of an animal by another animal of its own kind." A snake eating a snake is an act of predation, is an act of feeding, and the snake may not have consciously evaluated that the food item has everything in common with itself: It's still cannibalism.

FR said: "a king snake...also does not know that a kingsnake from another colony is the same".
Not so. One reason releasing snakes in an area other than their own is that they'll breed with the snakes of their species in that new area, and pollute the gene pool. Of course they know another king snake when they encounter one. Do they say "Oh, another king snake!" ? Of course not. But reducing this to that argument would be an absurdity.

FR said "All in all, kingsnakes are not cannibils because they do not consume their mates. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm "
Audible sigh or not, whether or not they consume their mates is irrelevant to whether they're cannibals. (If a murder kills strangers but not family members, is he not a murderer?)

It frustrates me you jumped the shark here, because I've learned a lot from you on the forum and find much you say to agree with. Don't take your arguments to such extremes.

that being said of all the kingsnakes and milksnakes which are the most likely to eat other snakes???

yesssss, they can and do eat other snakes. Both milks and kings.

Eastern kings and Florida kings are considered more snake eaters than the other western spp of kingsnakes. Both the eastern kings and Florida getula are heavy snake eaters. Miklsnakes are kinda wimpy when it comes to eating other snakes. But that also depends on which milksnakes. Sinaloan milks are less likely to be snake eaters than the eastern milksnake, etc.

But does your husbands question have more to do with keeping them in pairs or groups? Or ws it just a general questions which are snake eaters?

if the qustions is about what they eat. They are all snake eaters. But the term cannibal is ( as FR described in his post) is misused. If they were cannibals within their own group, then they would be extinct.

Now if your husband meant the other , which is keeping them in pairs or groups. You can, as long as they are bonded properly. I have kept my large collection of Florida kings for many years in groups and pairs with zero incdent of cannibalism.
However if they are not bonded they will eat each other as they do not recognize each other from the same group, tribe etc.

When people don't bond their kingsnakes they take a risk when introducing them during breeding season. That risk is always there with unbonded kingsnakes.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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To those that answered my question and to those that were so quick to turn this into an english lesson(LOL)..You have to remember that we can only put so many words in the title so I had to have an attention grabber and the word "cannibalism" did it and you got my meaning.

My dh was happy to hear that my milksnakes are indeed wimpyish(sorry if that is not a word or is used incorrectly, Im not a professional=).I dont even own a kingsnake so its not a matter of putting any together.My dh is always pestering me to get a kingsnake however.Maybe one of these days but not a huge priority right now.
BTW That Eastern is super sweet, I could make room for one of those..