Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here for Dragon Serpents
Click for ZooMed
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

Rat Breeder illness/injury

Seeves1982 Nov 28, 2011 09:41 PM

Hey guys,

I know this isn't the right place, but seems to me that no one thinks to check the rat breeding forum and I'm in major need of help here.

I was out cleaning my rat tubs today and noticed that one of my male rats had crazy infections on his feet. I put him in with the females a week ago and when I first put him in they were kind of fighting, but nothing strange seemed just like typical showing of dominance and things like that all though it was aggressive enough to catch my attention I didn't really find it weird.

I went out tonight to clean cages and swap males and noticed that my breeder had sores or infections on his rear feet. I ended up gassing him to put him out of his misery. Plus he's been struggling with myco symptoms lately and he's over a year old so I figured it was time for him to get some rest.

But to further my knowledge and save my colony in the future, if this happens again, I'd like to figure out what this is and then at the end I'll add my theory of what happened. He had sores/infections on his feet is the best way to describe it.

My care: I keep my rats in Large Rat breeder tubs, the commercial kind bought from Big Apple Herp. I keep two females per tub and rotate my males through the females. I use Care Fresh Bedding. Feed and water every two days as needed and every sunday/monday I dump all the bedding in the tub and completely clean the tub out with lysol all in one cleaner. I keep them in a room in my garage that stays in between 60 and 70 degrees. I feed a diet of home mixed food with a recipe I found on a rat care website that consists of Dog Food, Rat Food, Banana Chips, Garden Pasta, Total Cereal, Puffed Rice, and Puffed Wheat. I've read that this is a better diet than commercially bought rat food because he gives them the higher protein content and ensures that they get all the vitamins they need. I do not supplement with liquid vitamins.

My Theory: I was keeping one rat per tub the week prior with one tub of two per tub. I found through the experiment that two rats per tub actually work out better because the two females work with each other to care for both litters. Instead of being separate litters it's like one big litter with two moms and the mothers ended up being healthier than the tubs with just one mother, where at the end of the raising the mothers seemed to look worn out. Anyway one of the single mothers had a litter a few days before we decided to put two per tub in all tubs, but I didn't think anything of it because the other tubs with two mothers seemed to be doing so well with the litters. Anyway when we introduced the second female and a breeder male to that tub there was a short burst of dominance struggle, but I figured that may happen since a pregnant or nursing female rat is always the leader of a colony. I figured everything would be fine. I think that I was wrong and there was a lot of fighting going on in that tub. Also with the fight for dominance that cage seemed to get dirtier than the rest I'm guessing because of marking. I think that between the fighting and open wounds the male got a lot of infected wounds.

The thing that makes me wonder: The female that did not have a litter in that tub also has some of the same marks on her rear feet which means one of two things. A she got injured from the fighting as well. In which case I need to figure out a way to keep this from happening again. or B something else happened and there is some sort of disease that may possibly be plaguing my colony. In which case I need to figure out how to fix whatever it is.

Question: Is my theory right on the infected wounds or is there something else going on in my colonies? I would like to know what you guys think and how I can fix whatever is going on in my rat tubs.

Thanks Everyone for the help,
Mike
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------
1.0 Spider Ball Python
1.0 Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pastel Ball Python
0.3 Het for Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pinstripe Ball Python
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python
1.0 Hypo Ball Python

Replies (5)

kdreptiles Nov 29, 2011 02:32 AM

Not to be rude whatsoever, but I didn't read your entire post.... It's 12:30am and I'm not fully sober, sorry lol.

The first thing that comes to mind is bumblefoot. If you're keeping the cage meticulously clean, was the affected rat overweight? Overweight rats are more susceptible to bumblefoot with the extra amount of pressure they have on their feet.

Google Bumblefoot, there's a few good articles, examples and different stages of it so you can see if it matches what your rat had. It cannot be treated without antibiotics.

Seeves1982 Nov 29, 2011 06:48 AM

Yeah I would say that rat probably was over weight. Is there anyway to prevent it and does it go away or does it eventually kill the rat? And is there anyway to prevent it. I'll check google see if I can find out if that's what it looked like.
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------
1.0 Spider Ball Python
1.0 Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pastel Ball Python
0.3 Het for Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pinstripe Ball Python
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python
1.0 Hypo Ball Python

kdreptiles Nov 29, 2011 02:50 PM

Bumblefoot is caused by a couple reasons, mainly from very dirty conditions, but can also be caused if the foot gets a cut or scrape and gets bacteria from the bottom of the cage in the sore. Overweight rats are more prone to foot injury, therefore more bumblefoot.

If you're only cleaning the cages once a week, how much carefresh do you put in? Some people I've seen skimp on the bedding when using carefresh because it is so expensive, so it actually ends up much more dirty than the carefresh can help with in a week's time. Very dirty conditions like I said are one of the main causes of bumblefoot.

Keep your rats at a healthy weight and keep their cages very clean with plenty of bedding and you are good to go. If you find more rats like this, and wither like them too much or can't afford to gas anymore (both situations would be like me lol) you can make sure they aren't in a cage with any pregnant or nursing females and give them antibiotics. I prefer doxycycline because it is over the counter (the bottle I bought for RI is for fish but is no different than any other doxycycline) and inexpensive, though I'm not entirely sure how effective it would be against staph infection (bumblefoot) but it's good against RI and myco.

Proper doxycycline dosage for rats is a 100mg capsule dissolved into their water bottles with 4 oz water. It needs to not only be changed daily, but the bottle has to be scrubbed down really well with soap and water every day as well.

Good luck to you and the rest of your rats!

Bolitochrome Nov 29, 2011 02:51 PM

If what you have is bumblefoot, it is a Staph infection of the feet of the rats. I have seen it in rats that were kept in cages with wire floors, but any extra pressure or damage to the feet (such as fighting, like you mentioned) can introduce the bacteria. You can treat the rodents with some antibiotics, but if it is a resistant strain, the rats are doomed. Sorry about that.

The odd part is that you say you keep the tubs very clean. Clean dry bedding and tubs are the ideal *preventative* for this disease. All you may need to do is cull the infected individuals, do a major clean of your rodent area, and that would stop the spread.
-----
25 year old 0.1 from Lincoln, NE
Ball Pythons - 0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma (hidden gene?), 0.1 Yellowbelly, 2.1 Normals
Kingsnakes - 1.0 L. m. thayeri, 0.1 L. m. thayeri X L. alterna, 1.0 L. g. californiae
Other - 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 1.0 H. nascicus, ?.? Chrysemys picta, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

JYohe Nov 29, 2011 05:10 PM

....cannot tell the type of injury without being there...

...might be fighting , bite marks?...

....I started new colonies every 6 months....yes they can go a year if they are doing well......age matters some time...

check cage for ways to cut the feet???

....diet...lab chow is a total diet....no need for all the human foods....yes..the rats like it better.....it's all about your time and cash you want to use.....and make sure they aren't wasting half of it....they will.....

...good luck.....all I got....
-----
........JY

Site Tools