Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have heard that if you buy a hypo they usually stay smaller as the hypo gene comes from Panamanian BCI. Does that mean when you see hypo morphs they are not pure Columbian BCI? Or does the hypo trait not naturally occur in pure Columbian BCI and has to be crossbred in? Trying to understand the hypo morphs better but I see hypo hogs, then pure hypo Panamanians, then just hypo by itself listed. When they are listed as solely a hypo boa does that mean it is a Panamanian or a cross? Sorry probably a basic guestion for all you morph guys, but the sunsets hog crosses make me drool as just put more questions about the hypo gene in my head. Thanks

Jeff Ronne purchased a hypo boa that came from a shipment out of Colombia several years ago and has produced with that boa.

Other than that boa and it's offspring, all of the other hypos in boa culture have CA roots. There are also many non-hypo boas that have CA roots because they were from the same litters as the hypo boas, but just didn't get the hypo gene.

LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of misrepresentation going on in this hobby. Many defend it by saying "well... people just know that if it's hypo it's not pure Colombian". But...

1) No, people don't JUST KNOW that at all and
2) What about all of the non-hypo boas produced from those same pairings?

Another way to be sly and get around this quandry is the use of the word "type", as in, "Colombian-type" boa. This is used so that the word "Colombian" can still be attached to the boa (and thus, fetch a higher price than Colombian x Panamanian, etc.) but the seller can still make a veiled attempt at honesty.

IMO, if you don't know EXACTLY what you have, you should call it a "boa constrictor" (or "_____ [insert morph name] boa" ) and stop at that. That's honest and forthcoming.

Just my opinion and I admit I have more strict standards than others so my beliefs are not held by most.

jb

>>I have heard that if you buy a hypo they usually stay smaller as the hypo gene comes from Panamanian BCI. Does that mean when you see hypo morphs they are not pure Columbian BCI? Or does the hypo trait not naturally occur in pure Columbian BCI and has to be crossbred in? Trying to understand the hypo morphs better but I see hypo hogs, then pure hypo Panamanians, then just hypo by itself listed. When they are listed as solely a hypo boa does that mean it is a Panamanian or a cross? Sorry probably a basic guestion for all you morph guys, but the sunsets hog crosses make me drool as just put more questions about the hypo gene in my head. Thanks

-----
What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com Site received a complete makeover! Check it out!

Thanks JB, that helps a lot. It's a shame people don't breed pure hypo Panamanians and see how intense that color comes out and still have a pure locality boa that is super hypo.

most of the hypos out in the boa pet trade are mutts for sure, but it is possible to find pure locality hypos and superhypos..

I'm pretty sure there are pure hypo Panamanians being produced by at least a few respectable locality breeders. also, don't forget about the the other locality hypos out there.. like hypo sonorans and hypo nicaraguans... both of which also come in the superhypo form.

Patrick

Their is a guy in northern ohio who believes that the original hypo from panama is in fact a columbian hypo and not CA ? Dont know how he came to that conclusion, but it goes to show you that some breeders will make assumptions and statements with little or no facts to back them up.

What I also know is that we are talking about a man made political border between Panama and Colombia.

Panama ( the part of Panama Dr. Hardy's Orangetail female came from " Gamboa Panama " which is on the Colombia side of the Panama canal.)

Panama seceded from Colombia in 1903. So before 1903 Panama was Colombia not Panama.

So had Panama waited to secede until after Dr. Hardy brought his
"OT" fem Hypo back this conversation would be moot.

The only thing that separates N. Colombia and Southern Panama is some thing called the Darién Gap.

The Darién Gap is a large heavily forested area and swamp land in Southern Panama.

So just mull over these ideas for a little while.

. . . Lar M

-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

If there is no physical border and Panamanians are are a dwarf species, does that mean they are really CA dwarf locality and the Panamanian locality is bogus?

@samsquanch1972 . . No all it means is that in most cases all
Boa Localities run together at some point in the wild.

To answer your question about Panamanian Boas yes they are a Locality but they also merge with Colombia to the South and Costa Rica to the North.

In fact to the real Locality people , they will even split countries into regions.

For instance Costa Rica has Boas from the Liberian peninsula as a specific locality.
Yet I've seen Costa Rica Boas that look much like Colombian Boas with light colored bodies and bright orange tails, plus they can reach large size and length 8 footers are seen.

Then Costa Rica touches Nicaragua in the North on the Atlantic side.

Nicaragua has Bluefield Nics and few other regions noted for the special phenotypes of Nicaraguan Boas collected in those specific regions.

The merging of Locality specific phentypes is especially true in the South American localities but in cases where C.A. countries
touch each other the same is true to some extent.

To expand more on South America. Colombia used to include the
Northern part of Brazil ,Venezuela and the Essequibo region of Guyana and most of Peru to the West.

So my point is that Colombian Boas in the South - south West merge with Peruvians to the Due west with Ecuador and due South merge with Brazilians and they merge with Venezuelan Boas to the East.

Same thing Happens with Bolivia in the North East it merges with Brazil to the South it merges with Paraguy ( Bco) to the West it merges with Peru.

There are solid Locality Boas with phenotypical appearances but there is also natural crossing among the Localities that touch each other.
So it's by no means cut dry in many regions.

The original descriptions by the Scientists of that period only left us with scale counts as our guide to classify Boas.
This method is obviously lacking.Or maybe I should say incomplete way of categorizing Boa locality.
Possibly Phenotype should also be considered as part of the description
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Very good point Larry.

Thx Dan I'm only suggesting we should possibly have a more open mind about the way we think of Boas.

It would be nice if Scientific research could continue and possibly redefine
how we classify Boa constrictor sub species/ localities.

Possibly phenotype would become a part of the scientific description.

For now all we have is the original descriptions which point to scale count as the only way to classify Boas.

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Thanks for helping a newby to boa localities and morphs get straight. I keep 1.1 pure hogs and 1.0 longicauda and just got a 1.0 hypo hog X hypo hog cross. And the cross got me interested and curious about the whole hypo thing. Now I am jonesin for pure hypo Panamanians.

Let me contribute my worthless two cents into this, even though I dont know jack about reptile genetics. There are probably a handful of original Boa species and all others are naturally occurring crosses, and then there are man mad crosses. In comparison to dogs, all dogs came from the wolf, yet there are different types of wolfs, and all dog species are man made.

But, I agree with the fact that for the man made crosses the breeders/sellers should clarify what locality of snakes were used for the snake in order to determine growth rate, eating habbits, temperament, etc. I can sell you a bullmastiff puppy as a rednose pitbull expecting it to grow up to 50 lbs and turn out to get a 150lb dog, that is not fair for the consumer.

I to am looking for future pet colombian boa, and have considered getting a normal because I probably wouldnt know what I was getting buying a morph.

By the way I have 1.1 Longicaudas, but those are kind of easy to determine what they are because they are so distinct. unless you start looking at the ecuadoran boa that looks almost exactly like the tumbes boa (Longicauda).

In conclusion, I am glad we have breeders that specialize in morphs, and breeders that specialize in locality.