Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've sat on the sidelines watching the ball morph craze go by year after year and I finally got in the game....I love them but this is my first year breeding them and I'm just curious as to whether or not any of the $1000 + hatchlings actually sell and if so, how often.....Now before anyone jumps my $*#....I have bred monitors for several years and found that the higher end species simply didnt sell very well at all. Specifically, I bred green/black/blue tree monitors for over four years and was unable to sell most of the hatchlings until they were nearly adults. Albeit the asking price was higher than W/C or FB, these things were immaculate and totally different than any others available....But, they didnt sell. Different market demand? I dont know.....Is it at all the same with ball pythons? Do breeders & hobbyists get stuck with a bunch of hatchlings that they cannot sell or simply sell far below market value or is that just it...the market value is dropping before they hatch..or better yet, are too many people breeding and the market is getting saturated???????The classifieds on here and Fauna are completely loaded with hatchlings-adults.....Hence my inquiry.

1.1 Albino
0.2 Spider
0.1 Lemonblast
1.1 Pied
0.3 Het Albino
1.0 Mojave
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 Killerbee
0.1 Queenbee
0.2 Pinstripe
1.0 Lesserbee
1.1 Mystic Potion
0.1 Lesser
0.1 Butter
3.3.6 Blue Tree Monitors
2.3.3 Green Tree Monitors
1.4.8 Black Tree Monitors
1.2 Red Ackies
2.2 Yellow Ackies
1.1 humanoid children

$1000 babies.......sell all the time....even if you throw them out at $800......sometimes ,depending on what it is...you get the $1000 , sometimes...depending on what it is...it will set for months ,even at $800.....you gotta decide what to do...sell now or hold till I find the right buyer.....I sold alot of my animals at almost half price...for 20 years...not all ,maybe half of them...but you sell half now cheap and half for almost full price...it adds up....time is valuable also....I like free time, and less babies...and also...the mice and rats cost money....I like selling mice for cash rather than throwing them into a snake that I will sell for less in 3 months....and as you said..the market price may drop while you are incubating the eggs,....so sell fast....

see...easy....LOL...

think this way....unless you are in debt for snakes...which I never did......if you sell ball babies for $100 each, you still make money....so if you sell them for 800$ ...you make out better...even if people think they sold a 1000 snake for 800 and lost 200....they didn't lose anything they already had....

.....like one post....spider adult male...value...?...100$....
ask here how many people paid $12,000 for a baby male spider ....
then sold it for $300 or less.....(I paid 3000 and sold for 200 last year)....
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........JY

I get what you're saying but with the prices fluctuating and I'm doing this simply as a hobby. But, everything has a MAXIMUM CAPACITY! Eventually everything reaches a max-capacity and the value and/or market value suffers due to saturation of the market. We've all seen this as you pointed out with the example of the Spider morph. I dont mind breaking even with the hobby but who wouldnt like to make a profit doing what they love...I'm just wondering how on earth the mass-produced ball pythons are being sold when it seems like everybody has the same stuff....**SEGWAY INTO MID-HIGH-END MORPHS**.....Then there are the mid to higher end morphs that range anywhere from $1000 - $20,000 and sometimes higher...Is there really enough people out there that share the interest in the species to support the mass production of a species and if so, the inevitable will happen. As seen with the $XX,XXX (insert any morph), the price will simply drop off the deep end within a few years...So, I guess there are two options.........Breed the best you can now and hope the market value holds while your producing the current "HOT" morph....OR,.....Just breed what you love and hope you dont get stuck with the offspring for an eternity because you place a value on it/them that the market simply wont sustain or support....I appreciate your feedback and encourage others to chime in as well.

AT WHAT POINT HAVE WE CREATED EVERY MORPH?....I THINK THE POSSIBILITIES ARE LITERALLY ENDLESS...But will the market survive....Eventually, the rare ball python may end up being the "normal".....whatcha think?

I asked the question about three or four years ago how long it will be before normals are the more rare snake. Breed what you like you wont be dissapointed. If its a hobby than who cares as long as you do what you like? I still do normal to normal breedings because I happen to like a nice looking normal but I do single morph to normal to because I like certian ones. I can sell alot of snakes because there is not alot of people around me breeding Ball Pythons though that has changed over the last few years people will by from me because they know I have been around for a little bit. I had just under 200 babies last year counting Corns, Boas and Balls I sold every one of them local did not have to ship one. Like someone else said build a rep breed and sell what you like don't care about the other guy if you don't need to get paid. I dont think anyone expects to get rich breeding snakes anymore. I make enough to cover my feeders and supplies for the year and maybe add one or two more snakes to the mix I'm happy because its fun. Once it stops being fun and depend more on the money I'm done.

I'll take your females off your hands, I'll give them a good home and feed them. I'll even pay for shipping. That way you don't have to worry about the market =D
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1.0 firefly(pos het pied) 1.0 enchi 0.1 bumblebee 0.1 mojave 0.1 butter pastel 0.1 spotnose 0.1 pewter 0.1 pastel 0.1 pied 0.1 het pied 0.1 vanilla 0.7 normals

There will usually be a market for each level with people always cycling in and out.

The guy that is just getting into the hobby once he has a few clutches and sells some of those animal he might go up a bracket into mid grade stuff 500-1000 once he's producing animals within that value set he might make another jump into a higher grade animals.

I am still waiting to get into ball pythons. I have a collection of boas but plan on getting between 10 and 20 balls. But I want to do it the right way. I plan on getting only high end multi gene co dom animals and desirable recessive females simply because with animals like that you will make the high dollar multi gene males and females people want as well as the 200 snake for the person just wanting to start out with the morphs.
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Brandon Nixon

$1000 dollar snakes sell great for us. Even animals in the $5000-$10,000 range sell good for us. Actually animals in the $1000 range seem to sell faster then the $200-$900 range. We pretty much sell everything really good in any price range. Although I think it has to do with building a good name in the industry.
Hope this helps!
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Sloan Reptiles
www.sloanreptiles.net

In my experience it is actually much easier to sell the more expensive stuff than the cheap stuff. All of my higher dollar stuff is usually gone within a week or two of listing it. The really tough stuff for me to get rid of is spiders, hypos, black pastels, and stuff like that.

Most of my higher dollar stuff are things that are in pretty high demand. Mainly stuff like Lavenders, Ultramels, and clowns. I just got into the Crystal/Specials. I don't really deal with the 4-5 gene codom stuff so I am not sure how that sells. I think the most important advice would be to make sure that you are producing things that people actually want.
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John Vandegrift

It's great market and a great product... I feel very fotunate.

It depends on your customer base. If you put in the time to market your animals then you can get your asking prices. If you don't then you will have to start discounting (like many others). Once you start doing that, be aware. Why would someone give you your asking price later for more expensive animals when they know you will discount them again!

No one wants to sit on animals. It is easy to forget that you cannot just hatch babies then sell them fresh out the egg. Those who can wait patiently will reign supreme. My motto is if it sell is sell. It doesn't I can always get more for it as an adult. =)

Basically, it is like any other business. Plan to spend just as much time (or more) marketing your animals as you do caring for them.

As far as what to breed. Don't even think about the money aspect. As you said, the market is always changing. Breed what looks good to you. That way if you have to sit on animals at least they won't be ugly. Then you won't feel pressure to sell them to cheaply.
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-AnthillPython.com-

In my experience, I have seen many high end animals move, but that doesn't always mean they are sold. I have sold some pretty pricey hatchlings here and there but I've also sat on plenty that I now have ready to breed.....and I'm not complaining.

Sometimes morph combos don't work out as we had visioned in our minds. In my case, it was the Pewter Pieds. I hatched 2.1 in 2010 and they were 90%+ white with just a head patter. I was hoping for a silver and white animal but we found out the Cinny gene alters the pattern in a way that it is virtually eliminated....just as the Lesser Pied and Spider Pied. I have another morph I'm adding into the project to, hopefully, add the pattern back into the mix. I have a Pewter Pied male breeding several recessive girls now and my Pewter Pied girl is 1700 grams at just over a year old. I'm excited about the future of the project to say the least.

As far as morph prices falling, I've seen both small hobbyists and "big name" breeders cut prices with no rational reason to do so. I saw it recently with Albino Carpets. There have been no albinos available for several months, and they were sold for $6500-7500 each. There have recently been ads for $5000 and they are the only animals available at the moment. They are still rare and sell for the asking prices....really no justified need to lower the price by 30+%.

As mentioned before, pick what you like and think of new combos. Whether it's been done or not, you could be the first to offer them. Don't get side-tracked with all the new combos and stay focused with your goals. You never know, you could create a new morph without knowing.......

Good luck.

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Brandon Osborne Reptiles

Wooooo....I was wondering what ever happened to that PewPied project you were working on. I've been gone for some time and haven't been following any forums. Cool to see the update!

Thanks. I'll be updating the results as they transpire. I have a few other projects I'm hoping to prove out this season as well. Hope everyone is having a good one so far.
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Brandon Osborne Reptiles

I have seen a lot of good comments....time for my .02!

Yes, they sell.....of course, sometimes they don't move too fast. I think some people expect the egg to just open, and cash come out....you need to build your way there, but this DOES NOT mean cutting your prices. If you are new to it, sell them for what you want.....knock yourself out, they are YOUR animals. It's not hard at all to turn a profit off your purchase.....very easy, in fact. But if you want to get the bigger bucks, it's all about paying your dues, customer service, quality of your stock, and willing to be a little patient. If your animal doesn't sell right away, give it time......THE LARGER IT GETS, THE EASIER IT IS TO SELL......I'm going to repeat that.......THE LARGER IT GETS, THE EASIER IT IS TO SELL. This especially goes for females.....lower end males are a little more difficult, because surprisingly enough, more people have money out there than you think! Like you have heard others say, they have an easier time selling mid to higher end animals.....I agree! My lower end stuff sells much better at local shows. Down the line, I might just wholesale out ALL of my lower end stuff....less work for me, and I won't have to house as much. Anyone selling pastel males online I'm sure can agree. The shipping is often about the same price as the snake......I tend to sell my lower end stuff in groups.....

As for the much higher end stuff.....you shouldn't ever have that many.....after all, that's why they are HIGHER end stuff.....they are RARE! So sure, they may not sell too fast. Maybe you do a trade, or a partial trade, if you want something, or want them gone faster. But they will sell.....they all ALWAYS sell. But these snakes are just like everything else.....why doesn't EVERYONE have a corvette? Because they are more expensive......not everyone can afford it.....

As for the price dropping......yes, it happens....it can happen anytime......but I would rather spend that tiny, tiny amount of money feeding that one expensive snake than dropping it cheap.....if I have to hold onto it longer, so be it....

At the same time, sometimes you need to realize when to just LET IT GO......I'm not talking about the expensive stuff, I'm talking about the lower end stuff.....what I mean is, if you breed an albino to a normal female, and want to keep all the het females, those het males may be with you long enough to drop your profit down to zero.....and may even cost you money. Why? Because most people can afford het pairs....and they may not want to pay that shipping cost, which is most likely the price of that het male......so I dump off my HARD sells like that in pet stores, as hatchlings......no one is any wiser, I have less snakes to take care of, and I prevent another het albino gene from getting out there and being produced.....so why not? Sell the to pet stores....or better yet, use them as trade value for products they have that you might need. I did this with my normals my first year or two.....

And I see others are telling you to do what you love....I of course agree.......but I also treat it like a business, because that's WHAT I HAVE......I want to make money....why? Because it's what I do for a living.....but more than that, the morphs I want are EXPENSIVE.....lol....and so is feeding so many of them! But you need to build a reputation, get your name out there......every person that buys is another person that may talk about you, or come back and purchase more. If you help them succeed, they tend to come back and buy more expensive stuff. I have many loyal Priceless Python customers that refuse to buy from others......they produce great stuff, sell, and buy another morph that they have been dying to have. The more well known you are, the easier it is to sell......people like the way you do business, and if you are there for them......to give them tips, advice, etc, they really appreciate it (most of the time...lol), and that gets out there too.....

And to quote my partner......"Do it big, or go home".....if this is what you want, go for it......they sell....try small if you want, and go from there....but it's not going to be worth it unless you put in some effort. Personally, I haven't found anything as much fun or exciting as breeding snakes, making great money, and getting to know the wild, diverse crowd of people that love it as well....

Brandon Boeke
Priceless Pythons