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Variability in one locality of easterns

Dniles Dec 04, 2011 06:49 AM

My buddy Ryan Ferrell and I are working with a locality of eastern milks from Amherst County Virginia. The animals from the spot are highly variable with some being bright red and white and others being more typical brown on beige, etc. Ryan caught a very unique animal we call Old Yeller as it has a yellow tint to it.

I have the pleasure of brumating many of Ryan's easterns from this locality at my house this winter to so I took some photos of his animals and mine to show you how variable they are. Keep in mind all of the animals pictured here are from basically the same spot.

You'll really be able to see the variety in this locality of milks in the group shots at the end of the post.

First up is an average looking female in Ryan's collection

Next up is another female in Ryan's collection. I like this animal for the low blotch count it has.

Here is a male from my collection. He has retained a nice light background that gives him a nice contrasting pattern.

This male that Ryan has is very nice with great red blotches. We plan to use this male on all of the females we have next spring.

This female that I have is really nice with awesome red blotches on white.

this is Old Yeller that Ryan has. She is quite unique and its hard to capture her color. You'll be able to tell better with the group shots below.

Here are some group shots where you can really appreciate the variety.

And a few of the nicest three animals between the two collections

I hope you enjoyed.

Dave
DNS Reptiles - Milk Snakes

Replies (50)

denbar Dec 04, 2011 08:16 AM

Those are an amazing group of locality easterns, Dave. I had no idea there was so much variability in them!

--Dennis

Dniles Dec 04, 2011 11:10 AM

Thanks Dennis. Yep they're variable and when you find one, you never know what its going to look like up there!

Dave

joecop Dec 04, 2011 10:19 AM

Wow Dave. That yellow LTT is something else. Almost looks hypo or something. Nice group, but that one is amazing. I have not seen one like that before. Can't wait to see what they produce!!

Joe

Dniles Dec 04, 2011 11:12 AM

Glad you saw this post, Joe. I wanted you to see what Old Yeller looked like. Fingers crossed we'll get good eggs from her this year. Last year she laid while Ryan was out of town and the eggs dried up before he got to them.

Dave

JGEORGE Dec 04, 2011 05:50 PM

Those are great looking snakes. There's no way you can go wrong with those as your breeders. Hopefully that yellow trait will come through in some offspring, truly a killer looking individual.

JYohe Dec 04, 2011 07:21 PM

...Nice....as I started...I thought I'd be able to write, that they look just like PA easterns...But they DON'T...they look better...they actually...look more like red milks at times than easterns...head blotches are off...colors better...good snakes....nice.....good luck....I'd have been thinking temporalis as I flipped some of those....even that one with the mex mex colored sides....LOL...

good luck....
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........JY

Jeff Hardwick Dec 04, 2011 09:30 PM

Nice post Dave and a fine selection of animals you've posted! Looking forward to seeing the hatchlings produced from your efforts....(love that yellow animal).
-Jeff

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Let there be triangulum and lo, the milkhead was born.

Dniles Dec 05, 2011 06:10 PM

Thanks Jeff...we shall see what pops out...

Dave

prrengineer Dec 05, 2011 09:04 AM

Dave

In keeping with the theme you started. I have a pair of Easterns from New Hampshire (Don't have a county locale). The female in the first pic is brown and grey with a green overtone to her overall color. The male in the second pic is much redder although they both came from the same place.

Pete

Dniles Dec 05, 2011 06:13 PM

thanks Pete. I like that pair you posted. Let us know how those babies turn out.

Dave

tspuckler Dec 05, 2011 10:46 AM

Sweet. All that variability was not unlike the variabilty you'd see in Corn Snakes. Around here E. Milks all tend to look the same. Who knew there was high contrast, red-blotched and yellow (as well as "typical" )all within the same locality?

Nice stuff!

Tim

Dniles Dec 05, 2011 06:14 PM

Thanks Tim. yeah the first one Ryan caught was that yellow one and we wondered if they were all like that in this spot but that was the only one that has been found at that spot so far.

Dave

Joe_M Dec 05, 2011 05:27 PM

Awesome Dave! That light one is very interesting.

Here is a quick shot showing the variability in my locality breeding group for 2012...


-----
Joe

Dniles Dec 05, 2011 06:15 PM

Hey - you have a yellow one too! lol Joe, did you produce any hets last year with that albino male of yours?

Dave

Joe_M Dec 05, 2011 06:32 PM

2.2 possible hets from the dark "greenish" female. She was wc in the spring and I can't be positive if the albino was the sire.
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Joe

DMong Dec 05, 2011 05:46 PM

Wow!,..that's a killer assortment of Eastern tringulum Dave!..geeez!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

terryd Dec 05, 2011 06:18 PM

Nice group of Milks Dave, I really like Old-Yeller it's a peach of an Eastern milk.
I liked these other t. triangulum too, and took the liberty of adding more exposer, plus contrast, and a little more saturation. Sorry the photos looked a little dark to me.
Really like how white this one looks.

Also like this dude, and the orange in between his scales.

And Old Yeller here is awesome looking, and I really like this photo too, only wish the head was in focus. But what an interesting looking animal. -Dell

Image

mikefedzen Dec 05, 2011 07:52 PM

Very nice snakes Dave, Old Yeller is gorgeous.
-----
Mike
KingPin Reptiles
www.kingpinreptiles.com

RG Dec 05, 2011 09:13 PM

Variety is high on my list...that group you have would be extremely fun in experimenting with to see what you can produce from different pairings.

VERY cool!

-R

GerardS Dec 06, 2011 12:51 PM

Dave, what a killer post. I'm going to be in trouble come milk snake time. Thanks for posting them.
-----
Gerard

"I've lived a thousand times, I've found out what it means to be believed"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

joecop Dec 06, 2011 12:52 PM

Dave, I need to get you out with me next year to find a mate for this VA boy. I thought MD had the best LTT, but I am starting to wonder now!!

This is my favorite MD LTT. Big 36" light tan boy.

I dont mind this one either. Another 36" boy of a different shade. Good variety in MD too, but I dont have a yellow!!! Damn it!!

DMong Dec 06, 2011 01:19 PM

Wow!,....those are ALL exceptional Easterns as well Joe!

I agree, that tan MD male is simply outstanding man!..

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

joecop Dec 06, 2011 05:18 PM

Thanks Doug. When I caught him he was in shed and I almost let him go!! He looked REAL dirty. As soon as he shed I almost fell over. He is even better in person. Rivals the VA male I have IMO. Can't wait to see what some of these pairings that both Dave and myself have produce next season. I love that yellow he has of Ryans. Hey, throw some new pics of your obx up on KS when you get a chance. I love those things!!

Joe

joecop Dec 06, 2011 07:21 PM

Doug, disregard my request, I saw you responded to Gerard's post and put some photos up. Got my fix!!!

Joe

DMong Dec 06, 2011 07:55 PM

oooh, okay!........yeah, thanks for the kind words over there bro!..

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

DMong Dec 06, 2011 07:33 PM

Yeah, if you thought it was fugly initially, then saw it looking like that after it shed, I can only imagine how happy you were that you kept him..LOL!

I agree, between yours and Daves, you guys are going to be producing stunning stuff...guaranteed!!!

Thanks Joe, yeah, I'll try to get some new shots of the OBX sometime soon. I'm glad to know you like those things too man. Post some of yours as well, didn't you get some sweet OBX a while back?

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

joecop Dec 07, 2011 12:33 PM

Yeah Doug, I got a pair from my buddy Mark. The female is turning out to be a stunner while the male is not speckling up as much. They are the real deal too, just like yours. It will probably be another two years for them to breed though.

Joe

GerardS Dec 07, 2011 01:52 PM

Put me down for a pair when you produce some.
-----
Gerard

"I've lived a thousand times, I've found out what it means to be believed"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

joecop Dec 07, 2011 03:25 PM

You got it Gerard. I am sure Doug will have some next year if you want them sooner.

Joe

GerardS Dec 07, 2011 04:17 PM

You should post some pics of yours.
-----
Gerard

"I've lived a thousand times, I've found out what it means to be believed"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

DMong Dec 08, 2011 02:30 AM

Ah!, that's right, very cool that you scored some of those Joe. He owns "Snake Traders",...correct?

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

joecop Dec 11, 2011 05:45 PM

Yep. You got it Doug. That is my buddy Mark. No nonsense GOOD dude. Very fun to herp with as well. You gotta have some thick skin to herp with us---lots of joke cracking going on. Real quick----Mark shows up at my house to go herping and I see him drive up, get out of his truck, come up to my door and turn around to go back to his truck. Finally he comes back and knocks at the door. Well, turns out Mark had left the house with different shoes on!!! He was going to go back home when he looked down and saw what he did instead of take my endless ribbing. LOL. I still bust his chops about that every chance I get.

Joe

terryd Dec 06, 2011 07:09 PM

Joe, if you THINK that 36" triangulum IS big you have another think coming. This Eastern milk is 52", beat that!!! This is taped.... now that is BIG!!!!

"

Oh, the good old days, how I miss them.

-Dell

Sorry I couldn't resist. ☺

joecop Dec 06, 2011 07:24 PM

OMG!!!!! LOL. That is the crack pipe photo! I can't believe you broke that one out!! I did feel bad afterwards though----but it did (and still does) look like a crack pipe. He sent me a pm and given the situation I appologized to him. Yeah, those photos are missed by many. He made me feel good about my photos

Joe

DMong Dec 06, 2011 08:07 PM

.
Image
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

terryd Dec 06, 2011 10:47 PM

Doug,
That is a sweet milk you posted. Thanks for sharing it with us, now I need to go have my prescription changed on my glasses.

Thanks,

-Dell

GerardS Dec 06, 2011 11:02 PM

I wish I was around for that guy.
-----
Gerard

"I've lived a thousand times, I've found out what it means to be believed"

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

DMong Dec 07, 2011 12:26 AM

Yeah, you would have loved it Gerard!..HAHAA!!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

DMong Dec 07, 2011 12:22 AM

LOL!!,..thanks Dell, but I can't take any credit for the awesome photo, I found it on the internet. It's very possible it was taken by the renowned photographer, Jeff S...

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

DMong Dec 06, 2011 07:58 PM

HAHAHAHA!!!,....I'm glad Jeff wasn't a carpenter!..

Too freakin FUNNY!!!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"


serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Dniles Dec 07, 2011 07:43 PM

Yeah Joe, I am game to go looking for a mate for your killer VA male. Just say when!

I like all of those males you posted - they are sweet.

Dave
DNS Reptiles - Milk Snakes

Brad_Lee Dec 09, 2011 11:16 AM

Joe,
If you need another set of eyes to help find those VA Easterns, don't hesitate to call me. I'd very much like to get out and hunt in Southern MD or VA.
Brad Bauserman

joecop Dec 09, 2011 05:19 PM

LOL. We shall be in touch come spring Brad. Looking forward to some field time with ya!

Joe

Ryan11 Dec 07, 2011 07:53 PM

2010 givebacks from the red female that Dave now has

Ryan11 Dec 07, 2011 07:57 PM

2010 holdbacks. Sorry

joecop Dec 07, 2011 11:13 PM

Nice looking animals Ryan. I love the heavy black borders on those and prefer that trait on LTT, even more so when they have clean backgrounds.

Joe

Ryan11 Dec 08, 2011 05:47 PM

Thanks Joe, the last picture is my best looking male. Hopefully next year I will be able to breed him with my yellow female(Old Yeller).
Both have really nice black borders

Dniles Dec 10, 2011 07:59 AM

glad you chimed in, Ryan. Love those animals you posted. You and I will be sorting through a bunch of those this summer!

Dave

SunHerp Dec 08, 2011 09:37 AM

Very cool stuff, Dave! Sorry it's take me so long to reply - I've been doing field work all week. The variability (and beauty) of that group cannot be overstated!

I only work with three localities of nominate triangulum at the moment. They're great critters, though! I find their earth tones very visually pleasing.

Image
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_______________________

-Cole

joecop Dec 09, 2011 05:20 PM

What locality is that Cole? I have to go back and read your post, I am going to feel real stupid if you mentioned it!

Joe

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