Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...just watch your fingers
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Very nice! What kind of pit is it? Love the yellow.

Not too close to face with hungry snake, either! LOL!
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

nice animal!!! I would like to know what kind as well!!

Crazy pic there Bob! ...and I thought my tag on the nose was a good hit. That looks downright painful!

So, "what is it" you ask ;D Well it was sold to me as a ruthveni when I was much more naive than now. The origin is purportedly from a well know pit keeper who unkknowingly introduced impure stock into his program. This impure stock is apparently a result of inadvertent hybridization way back when at a little zoo in Louisiana. The best information I've found, much of it here in discussion by some of the original players, is that the outlander would've have been a lodingi! ...now, how you'd get this animal out of a lodingi x ruthveni is beyond me ...but then, I can't think of anything that would produce such an animal?

Now, I've had two other almost certainly pure ruthveni and they all share so much in common aside from the high yellow and "bald" head. Oddly one highly respected pit man stated on this forum that the head shape is wrong for ruthveni but having this snake side by side with a pure ruthveni fails to substantiate that assertion.

This particular issue is hot and the old time players have been smug. I've attempted to contact the breeder who does contribute here occasionally but have received no response.

I'd love to know more about the animal and find it a shame that these old-timers choose to be so secretive and sensitive. Apparently this whole history of this species in the hobby is wrought with hard feelings and bruised egos.

Anyway, I now just accept it as one heck of a snake. He fires on every cylinder and is a joy to keep. Extremely hardy also, perhaps a testiment to the power of "hybrid vigor".

...but then, maybe he is just a pure ruthveni, "cleaned-up" through line breeding???

btw, I payed a hefty price for this snake just a few years back when they were commanding $400 ...pure or not, I don't regret it at all. It is a very special animal with a interesting historical background.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

He looks like a ruthveni to me, but then I am no big expert on this sort of thing.I have observed that amongst snakes seemingly of the same species there can be a lot a variation in color and pattern, whether in the wild or captive bred.

A side note; I need to update my collection at your site big time, as I now have over 30 snakes, but have re-homed some others.

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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Hey Bob, where'd you get that pic? ...

Well, his "bald" head and high yellow are the only characteristics that trigger my suspicions. ...that and the story behind it. Interesting that the individual who is purported to have performed the outcrossing (knowingly or not) is open to sharing the history as he understands it and he has left room for doubt in my interpretation.

Again, just one killer animal whatever it is. I call it a "wtf?" pine If it proved out to be pure, that would rock the world

I'd be more than happy to assist you in updating your collection on SerpenTrack. Let me know if there is anything I can help with. The more the merrier!

Brad
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Oh yeah, I'd like to add that I did purchase a robust female with good docs to breed him with prior to knowing the questionable nature of his heritage. At that point I determined not to breed him although the impulse is still hard to overcome. This species has suffered enough genetic mutilation in captivity and I don't want to add any more to the mess. ...but wouldn't it be sweeeeet! IF I ever find out he is pure (not gonna happen), then I would go for it immediately!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

I'd be more than happy to assist you in updating your collection on SerpenTrack. Let me know if there is anything I can help with. The more the merrier!
I looked at my collection and Holy Moly! I have not fed my snakes in over 500 days! LOL! Anyway, am starting to add the new ones. I don't have Guzmano anymore as I sold him to my friend Shane some time ago.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

It's about time you spring for a rat or two Bob
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

His " bald " head and higher yellow should not trigger any suspicions, as even though I am no expert, I do know that pure specimens CAN, HAVE, and DO have those characteristics. I have seen it myself.

Now, as you mention, if the story is flaky, then that would be the main cause of suspicion. Pines though can always have some sort of variation in their looks, for example, northern pines.
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Genesis 1:1

Thanks man, I've had so many people, some of highly reputable if not especially forthcoming, character nay the snake. If you can post a pic of one anything like it I'd love to see it.

Can't remember if Ginter ever chimed in on this but I'd sure like to hear his opinion, as he is certainly among the most iconic pit men and seems a man of great integrity.

Brad
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Yeah, I have seen some snakes that were labeled as LA pines that clearly looked much worse, in terms of being suspected as hybrids, than your specimen here.

With that being said, even looks these days can be deceiving unfortunately. The story behind the snakes, for this species, usually goes together with the authenticity.

I would not disqualify your snake though due to the high yellow color and bald head. A lot of male northern pines have the same type, or lack of, head markings. Who is to say the same may not apply to your snake?

Just sent you a PM.
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Genesis 1:1

I'm very interested in what you PM'd me about but can't see a link to PMs on this site??? Silly me eh? Please advise.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

" Posted by: monklet at Mon Dec 5 20:42:01 2011 "

Where you name is highlighted, I clicked on it, and was able to send a message.
The message will appear in your email that your username is linked to, on this site.
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Genesis 1:1

For some reason, I, and it seems others, don't always/ever get KS generated emails. My prefs are good for it but ???

Anyway, I hesitate to post an email address here, and this is not intended to be a plug, but there is a convenient "contact" link at serpentrack.com/?c=main&a=contact. Once I get that I'll send you my email address. sorry for the hassle.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Message was just sent.
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Genesis 1:1

...hope you got it.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

"Anyway, I now just accept it as one heck of a snake."

Indeed!
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______________________________________________________________
"The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese."

Wow, can't wait for my Louisiana to get that big.

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Gee Ross, didn't know you kept pits! ...it WILL get that big. I've had three ruthveni now and they all have been very robust animals in every way, but especially in their body mass. Especially "buffed-out", even for pits.

Your's there is a lovely super classic! Looks pure as the driven snow!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Yeah Brad, I have this one an an axanthic Sonoran juvi from this year. The Louisiana has grown fast and was already taking adult mice less than 2 months after I got him. They are eating machines. lol
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