Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Last night I noticed that my 1 yr. old beardie, who is normally perched on his branch basking or sleeping was lying on the terrarium substrate and when I attempted to pick him up, he didn't attempt to run from my hand, which is his normal, typical, healthy young dragon response. I picked him up and he did not have normal muscle control. He was not having a seizure but just seemed weak and lacking normal muscle control. It was as if he lost coordination and balance. He could hold onto my hand, but was struggling to just to that. Now, 24 hours later, his condition has not changed. He was in the same spot as when I left him this morning. He has not sustained any acute trama that I am aware of, nor have I altered his environment or diet. Normally accepting food daily, he has not eaten in over 24 hrs.

I’m wondering if someone out there has seen this or is familiar with these symptoms. Could this be bacterial or viral? I want to take all necessary actions to treat this a.s.a.p.

Thanks

My first thought is that it could be brumation. But not knowing all of the variables, I can't be sure.

What are your temps? Basking and cool side?
When did he poo last and what did it look/smell like?
Does he have dark circles under his eyes?

If he is brumating that is usually onset by cooler temps, even cooler temps in your house will lower the overall temp in his cage. Or if he has a view of the outside, he could see the changing seasons and the shorter day cycle and have the urge to brumate. Hard to say.

I'm worried a bit by your mention of his muscle control. Is he just lethargic and being sleepy, or does he not have control of his muscles?

I'm sorry if this doesn't help much.

Veronica
Beautiful Dragons

"I'm worried a bit by your mention of his muscle control. Is he just lethargic and being sleepy, or does he not have control of his muscles?"

although it could be brumation this in itself would worry me, they will slow down and act lethargic, not eat etc when about to brumate or brumating, but even though lethargic they wont loose muscle control or have a hard time keeping themselves up. i think your best bet would be to see a good herp vet and have him evaluated.

>>My first thought is that it could be brumation. But not knowing all of the variables, I can't be sure.
>>
>>What are your temps? Basking and cool side?
>>When did he poo last and what did it look/smell like?
>>Does he have dark circles under his eyes?
>>
>>If he is brumating that is usually onset by cooler temps, even cooler temps in your house will lower the overall temp in his cage. Or if he has a view of the outside, he could see the changing seasons and the shorter day cycle and have the urge to brumate. Hard to say.
>>
>>I'm worried a bit by your mention of his muscle control. Is he just lethargic and being sleepy, or does he not have control of his muscles?
>>
>>I'm sorry if this doesn't help much.
>>
>>Veronica
>>Beautiful Dragons
-----
reiko
photos

Everything with him was normal up until last night. Tuesday night he was gulping down superworms, the day before he was chasing around crickets. His droppings look/smell normal. I've had him 8 months and really nothing has changed. It has cooled off here outside a bit, but inside temps have not dropped much. Also, these symptoms appeared suddenly. It is not just lethargy, it is shaky, lack of coordination, like there is some neurological problem....which is what concerns me. This does not seem to be bacterial since his fecal consistency has not changed and it was not a gradual decline in health. Also, this new batch of worms which I fed him Tues. night, was also fed to my young frilled dragon, and he is doing fine, so it doesn't appear to be diet related. I may have to take him in, just not sure what a vet might do given these symptoms.

Ok, when you mention...

"It is not just lethargy, it is shaky, lack of coordination, like there is some neurological problem....which is what concerns me."

Are the shakes like muscle spasms? Where is the shaking happening? All over or just in the toes and limbs? If so he could have MBD or hypothiaminosis (lack of vitamin B1). Are you supplementing with calcium and does he have a UVB emitting light?

Veronica

He is just shaky when trying to move, not while at rest. I have supplemented his food and have had a uv-full spectrum bulb (which I just replaced 3 weeks ago) on him since I've had him. This is really strange. I've had reptiles for 15 years and have never seen anything come on this fast.

I think you should take him to a vet. It sounds like you have his setup the way it should be, with all the proper lights, heat, food and suppliments. Though burmation, MBD, impaction can exhibit similar symptoms, it could be something completely different. I am almost inclinded to think he ate something that was toxic, in which case, he needs to see a vet right away.

Has there been any toxic sprays around his area (air freshioner, cleaner, etc) that he may have come in contact with? Infestation of bug? Was he outside before he started to act this way or running around the room?

Oh another thought...you are positive it's a male? If a female with infertile eggs that have become egg bound, it could be causing her this problem as well. A vet check seems the best thing to do.

what does he usually eat? what do you supplement with? what is your lighting setup? what is your substrate? give all the information you can about him and your setup. has anyone sprayed or used anything out of the ordinary in the house? is he in an area with open windows that could have had something come through such as pesticides etc? if this is a sudden and abnormal change for him i wouldnt wait and get him to a vet, its never too early with these guys when you suspect something...

>>Last night I noticed that my 1 yr. old beardie, who is normally perched on his branch basking or sleeping was lying on the terrarium substrate and when I attempted to pick him up, he didn't attempt to run from my hand, which is his normal, typical, healthy young dragon response. I picked him up and he did not have normal muscle control. He was not having a seizure but just seemed weak and lacking normal muscle control. It was as if he lost coordination and balance. He could hold onto my hand, but was struggling to just to that. Now, 24 hours later, his condition has not changed. He was in the same spot as when I left him this morning. He has not sustained any acute trama that I am aware of, nor have I altered his environment or diet. Normally accepting food daily, he has not eaten in over 24 hrs.
>>
>>I’m wondering if someone out there has seen this or is familiar with these symptoms. Could this be bacterial or viral? I want to take all necessary actions to treat this a.s.a.p.
>>
>>Thanks
-----
reiko
photos

...