Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Came across this picture of a Black Pinesnake on the Official Web site of the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. Here is the link.

http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/what/Reptiles/Snakes/bps.cfm

My question is that that this snake looks chocolate brown. I was told that there are intergrades or crosses called "Coco" Pinesnakes. These are supposed to be crosses between Black Pines, and Southern Pines.

I have seen lots of Black Pines in my life, but I never came across one that looks like the one pictured here.

Would like to hear what all you think.

Jay

I think it is awesome!, that's what I think ...love the rust.
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

That's the rare "goini" phase

awesome animal either way.

OMG. That is one AWESOME looking black pine. I would much rather have that animal then a jet black one. Wow.

Joe

Hello Jay

The world is great - and all specimens are a little different. Our deli cup Pit mel. lodingi are so black because we bred only with the prettiest jet black specimens.
The pictured animal on outdooralabama is a little brownish but not so far away from the "pure" Lodingi of Mobil - maybe it is from the area east of the Tensaw river. The intergrades from the border to Florida are normally heavy patterned or speckled. For me the pictured animal has only a faint difference to the "pure Lodingi".

I think the animal from outdooralabama is an intersection of the pattern and coloration possibilities of Lodingi.
There are so many interesting things in coloration and pattern of Lodingi ... Depending on locality, sometimes specimen. It is even interesting how the preserved specimens from Louisiana look, and so on.

There is more in Pituophis than breeding them like a guppy or budgie ...

Bernd

www.pinesnake.de

Bernd,

Thanks for some info. I really like this form of Black Pine. I would love to see some available, as they offer something different than the deli cup Black Pines seen at every show.

So your thoughts are that this is a pure Black, and not an intergrade cross with a Southern?

Thanks,

Jay

Hi Jay,

there is some good stuff written about the Lodingi. Too I visited their distribution area to get a feeling how they live.
So there is a pure form in the center of their distribution area. Between Tensaw river and the Mississippi. But also there are populations in the wild with a rest of faint blotches or barrs, even between the 2 rivers. East of the Tensaw they get a little brownish, northward they get sometimes light bands and even to the west the coloration differs and there are animals with white bands on the side.
In my sight the brownish coloration is a sign that the gene pool enlarges a little.
As allways the question: Where starts an intergradiation? With the first phenotypic changeing of one character?
Then lodingi has really only a distribution area in in the size of some football fields.
OK - a little more. But it will shrink to only a small patch of their drawn distribution.
Just my thoughts after 2 decades work with the genus Pituophis ...

Bernd

Hey Bernd. How's it going? Did you go to the show in Hamm, Germany or Holland that just past?
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Randy Whittington

Hi Randy

Thanks, I'm fine!
Yes, I "made" Hamm and Houten again. A big chance to see terrarium enthusiats and clients.
It is important so sell some offspring to lower the snake keeping costs. Maybe you heard about it ...
But it is important too to speak with other people to get new ideas!
My second hobby is "chairman of an workgroup snakes". So my hobby do not end at the edging of my tubs or delicups

By the way - now you are famous! In our German Pituophis book is one of your snakes pictured and your name is written under it!

Bernd

Oh yes, it's definatly good to sell some babies to pay for costs.
A friend was telling me that there were some unique snakes to be found. There were a couple rare asian ratsnake species available that I've been looking for. Maybe I'll get over there one year to make the shows.
That's cool to hear of one of my snakes in the book. I'm guessing it's a vertabralis? Can you give me any info on the book so I might look for a copy on line?
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Randy Whittington

Hi Randy

Here is the mentioned page of our German Pituophis book.

It is one of the animals I took from you in Daytona 2008 (?)

Would be great to see you one day in Germany!
I live only 40 miles from Hamm and 100 miles from Houten.

The link of the book I'll post in the main tree of this forum.

Bernd

Very cool!!! Thanks a lot Bernd.
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Randy Whittington

I used to own one. I loved that snake. It used to be much more commom in the early days (mid '90s), but I haven't seen one for many years now.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

Most Black Pines are really dark brown and this is easy to see when you get them into the sunlight. It's impossible to tell a really light black pine from a dark southern/black intergrade, so you'll never know for sure. That snake does look like it has some striping in its pattern, which is kind of odd.

I have this male Black Pine that I suspect is hypomelanistic. I'll be breeding it to one of its offspring in 2012 or 2013.

Tim

Third Eye

Tim, that animal is bad arse!! The lower section has some king cobra action going on. I know most folks like black pines to be jet black, but I actually like the look of this one and the original poster's pic. Just my opinion and it is probably not shared by many!!

Joe

Joe, Im with you. I really like the different looking brown ones.