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Hi,

I picked this female up a few months ago online from a guy in California. He said he picked it up from a show. The seller claimed that it was a PURE black Pinesnake. He had 3, all females, and they all looked like this. I think that he said that he saw pictures of the adults, and they also had this white coloration/patterning.

The snake is now over a year old, and still has bright white markings. My thoughts are that if it was a cross with a Northern it would have lost the white coloration, and become muddy.

Any Thoughts on what this could be?

Thanks,

Jay

I firmly believe you picked up a cross of some sorts. Crossed with what, I do not know in particular, but if after a year, that snake still has those markings, I would bet it is not a pure black pine.

Still a very pretty snake!!

Just my .02.
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Genesis 1:1

Definately not a Black Pine, as in pure. Actually, since I don't see any brown, and with the black pigments accumulating anteriorly, it may just as well be an extremely dark Northern.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

I agree with Herman, strongly suggests hypermelanistic Northern to me. Nothing about the pattern really says Black Pine, only the pure black anterior. Gorgeous snake. Just like my WTF Pine, you'll never know for sure so just enjoy it for what it is!
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See all my snakes at SerpenTrack.com

Hi,

This snake does have some brown around it's face. If it is a clue, this snake is very hissy and defensive (like other black Pines I have had) and not as calm as the Northerns tend to be.

I have seen Black X Southern Pines, and the juvenile pattern looks very close to this snake, but the crosses turned darker with age.

It does look much like a Chain King pattern! Maybe it should be called a Chain Pinesnake?

Jay

The thing is, one might argue that a Black Pine is actually a brown snake, with a black paint job. Therefore, I would expect Black x Northern crosses to be considerably more brown, especially posteriorly, much unlike your specimen. I have seen Black x Southern intergrades from the Escambia area. These do not look like your specimen, not by a long shot.

Another thing to consider is the fact that many Northern Pine populations show a tendency of hypermelanism on the anterior part of the body. In fact, I happen to own three New Jersey Northern Pines which may not be quite as dark as your specimen, but they get pretty darn close. And then there's the slender, elongated shape of the body. Also more typical for Northerns than for Blackies.

But then again, what the hack do I know? With no background information, other than that it's definately not what it said on the box, it's all just a short in the dark.
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

... shot in the dark, dammit!
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I'm Dutch. Somebody shoot me.

I think Herman could be right. If ist a cross, maybe a cross with a Lampropeltis getulus getulus

Or maybe a cross between Pituophis and King Cobra?
Juvenile Ophiphagus hannah have bands too.
Or a Krait - Bungarus fasciatus, now Pituophis fasciatus - maybe?

maybe ...

I saw a 2' pinesnake at a show here in Columbia, SC with that exact pattern except the white went closer to the head than that one does. It was very attractive but I wasn't sure what it was either.

What did the guy have it labeled as?

Another thing about this snake is it has the "compact" head that many Black Pines seem to have.

JJ

It was labeled Black Pine. I didn't ask any questions at the time. It wasn't the first time I had seen it so maybe it will be at the spring show. If so, I will take pictures and ask questions.

pines today...but most of them today are generations of captive breeding to make them black. Patterns on wild caught ones is not abnormal. That looks to me though, to have some influence of northern pine somewhere back in it's lineage.