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Desert Female by jaymiller242

I have every intention of posting a nice cluth of viable eggs from this girl in a few months and of course the babies that hatch out 2 months after that. What does the EvilMorphgod think about that ?
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JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.

Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
12 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

Good luck and keep us posted!
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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

What if it doesn't and Kevin is right along with almost everyone else who believes that they wont?
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Nate Tosh
Normal Exotic's
Coming soon
www.normalexotics.com!!!!!

Can we get everyone to acknowledge that she looks like a desert now?

I can already hear it when a pic of her is posted wrapped around a clutch...

That's not a desert, she looks like a ____(insert various morph here)_________;

So, let's all go on record that this girl is a desert now. If she lays eggs then there can be no criticism of her morph.

Any takers?

I may have to humble myself and listen to satan and his disciples say "I told you so" but its worth a try.. Now all I have to do is colaborate with my advisor Josh Hutto to see what will make the best clutch of eggs just in case she does go..
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JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.

Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
12 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

I forgot to ask, what are you pairing her with this year?

Are you trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone (proving that desert females can produce good eggs and that there is a super form) or just simply going with something more normal like an enchi to make tigers for this year?

Im really not sure yet, maybe the Superstripe or the Firefly. Something of a combo I am thinking.
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JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.

Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
12 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

either way it would be totally awesome if she produces for you.
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - Add Me- click here
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I am mummbling a little prayer for her....

Good Luck...!!!...I wish someone would soon post pics of eggs under one....
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........JY

she looks young....but good luck.

Keeping fingers crossed.
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - Add Me- click here
My Facebook Page - Like Me- click here

How young could a 1900gm animal be?

depends on how fast he grew her.

Everyone is stuck on the weight thing b eing a good indicator of breeding readiness.

I have a 1300 gram female that is SHORT and FAT and has already bred for me. she is young

I have a 2400 gram female that is looong and super skinny and I would not even think about breeding her anytime soon. she is old and she needs more weight. I can almost see her bones.

I only say the OP's bp looks young because of the length in proportion to the weight.

IF.......and that is a big IF. If desert females were to somehow produce. I believe they need to be much older. Probably at least 4 years old. That is IF they even produce.

I would guess this female is younger than 2.5 years old.

Again just a guess. I am no expert.
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - Add Me- click here
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at 1900gm, she's old enough!

NOT according to ALL of the guys working with this morph. They also said they thought that age of this particular morph played a huge part in getting eggs.

I think what you meant to say is heavy enough. Not "old" enough.

1900 gram animal can be a powerfed overly obese young animal or a very old "poor feeder"
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - Add Me- click here
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No, what I meant was, it would take at least 2 years to get an animal to 1900gm!

agreed.....................n/p
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - Add Me- click here
My Facebook Page - Like Me- click here

>>No, what I meant was, it would take at least 2 years to get an animal to 1900gm!

Is this referring to any animal or just deserts? I have an august 2010 female pewter pied at 1700 now.
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Brandon Osborne Reptiles

You would be incorrect on the age of this animal. He orignially purchased her from someone that said she was a "POOR" feeder and she would never make breeding weight. Well Jay got this girl eating great and now she never refuses a meal. This female is an 08 desert.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I should have covered the "poor" feeder aspect in my original post. Hence the weight to length ratio and the head size.
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Ritchie Luna
My Facebook Profile - Add Me- click here
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She is right at 3 years old so I guess I could always wait another year but at 3 years and 1900 grams I dont foresee any problems as far as age or body weight. I have never believed that the Deserts wont make good solid clutches, I am one of those I will believe it when I see it people so this is the kind of thing I have to see for myself. Thanks for all the good lucks and that kind of thing. Oh and by the way has anyone on here had first hand experience with the Desert females or is it always "someone else" it was heard from ? Have a great week and Merry Christmas to everyone. Jay
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JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.

Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
12 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

What is her age?

Happy Holidays to you and yours!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

there from them...

For sure!

I did not say they were sterile. I have Desert stuff too.... it makes INCREDIBLE combos for sure. But the TRUTH is the truth.... they are not like a normal ball python.

I think we may be able to improve things with this gene as we combine it.

SO, you are posting this before you have her gravid or eggs?

Does anyone remember last season where we had someone post a picture of a "Desert"...I think it was wrapped around eggs....

I did not think it looked like a Desert and secondly, nothing was ever posted on the result.

GOOD LUCK.,..... I would love to see some good stuff from the girls... I would love it in fact!!!

JINX

SATAN

>>
>>Desert Female by jaymiller242
>>
>>I have every intention of posting a nice cluth of viable eggs from this girl in a few months and of course the babies that hatch out 2 months after that. What does the EvilMorphgod think about that ?
>>-----
>>JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.
>>
>>Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
>>0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
>>1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
>>1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
>>2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
>>12 Tarantulas
>>Last but most Important 2.2 Children
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Is there any fool that wants to debate this FACT now? Or, is there anyone out there that wants to say it not The Truth now? The Evilmorphgod has spoken and he's in the project. This says a lot in my book.

I don't believe they're sterile either. There's a reason why all these breeders say they may need to be older. It's because they don't do anything when they're younger. It's their only hope.

This does prove one thing. Some "trolls" speak The Truth.

Oh Christ, here we go again!

We are not going anywhere. They know better now that the Evilmorphgod has spoken THE TRUTH. Their silence is DEAFENING isn't it everyone?

I doubt very much that adding other genes will help anything. Why would a morph be some kind of defect fixer? Nothing is stronger than a normal, and bred to a normal female deserts suck. Hopefully the older and much larger animals can be more than pretty pets. It's an awesome gene that makes awesome combos.

Hey Schleprock, it is what it is! If that's the case, we as hobbyist's and as a industry will overcome or adapt! And if you're so confident being "The Chosen Messenger", why don't you reveal yourself! What harm can it cause? After all, it is The Truth, right?

When you say the are not like a normal ball pyton, what exactly do you mean? Breeding? Growing? Size? Is your experience with the females in your facility that you'd be willing to share?

I have read lots of the ominous threads referring to the females having trouble producing, but only two or three breeder have give their negative outcomes publicly that I know of.

Is your experience with your own 5 females, 10 females, more?

What was the amount of of them with clutches? viable eggs?

Is your information from other breeders you know well?

One breeder, three breeders, 10 breeders?

How many females did they breed?

Have they ever had a female breed viable clutches?

What percentage? 10%? 25%, less? more?

I assume your infomation is valid, but wondering what you are willing to share other than they are not normal and have trouble producing viable clutches.

If we really want people to have success breeding the females, sounds like we need to share what worked with the morph and what did not work.

I do not know "the Truth". I love the morph and would love for someone to figure out how to increase the odds of having a successful clutch from them.

Pro exotics seemed relatively open with their results prior to their fire. I don't have any knowledge from P. Kahl's collection, but would guess he has had a lot of experience with the morph and females. Would love to hear about his exact success or lack of it.
Thanks for any info in advance.

"For sure!

I did not say they were sterile. I have Desert stuff too.... it makes INCREDIBLE combos for sure. But the TRUTH is the truth.... they are not like a normal ball python.

I think we may be able to improve things with this gene as we combine it.

SO, you are posting this before you have her gravid or eggs?

Does anyone remember last season where we had someone post a picture of a "Desert"...I think it was wrapped around eggs....

I did not think it looked like a Desert and secondly, nothing was ever posted on the result.

GOOD LUCK.,..... I would love to see some good stuff from the girls... I would love it in fact!!!

JINX

SATAN "

>They do not act like your typical Ball Python.

They are often nervous. they sometimes grow slowly in relationship with what they may eat. Males are often GREAT breeders. Females producing eggs is (so far) almost non-existent.

I know quite a bit about Ball Pythons and this is not me grasping at straws here.

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

As far as me basing my opinion on this and if I am getting this from other breeders...and if I know them well and all that yip yap.....

This is not a far fetched idea by a long shot.... I don't need to document or provide statistics with my ideas.....

A simple point. Why has the Desert gene been around for some time now and we don't know if there is a Super and we don't know if more than a few have even produced!

I have Deserts..... I plan on making some RIDICULOUS combos with them and I can only hope that we figure this out....

BUT THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH!

Guess what else..... CARAMELS LIKE TO KINK!!!

Not all but it "appears" to be part of the gene.

How come everyone is not crying(well...we all bummed) about them? People have shifted their focus and now look at things like the Ultramels to do the work.

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Not everything has been put on the open table about this morph.

>>Not everything has been put on the open table about this morph.

Yes, I hear murmurs about kinking???? I would not be surprised it there is a "bit' of that going on but so far I just hear whispers.... not sure if any of it is even true.

A fantastic morph still the same!

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Well, if you inbreed anything enough, you're probably gonna be some kinking and other birth defects. That's with any animal really........

>>Well, if you inbreed anything enough, you're probably gonna be some kinking and other birth defects. That's with any animal really........

Ummm.......... that is NOT what we are talking about here. WHo said INBREEDING?

SANTA SAYS WHO?
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

If there has been NO kinking going on with them to this point, something had to trigger it to start........

Now, ultimately, there is gonna be some degree of inbreeding or the very least inline breeding happening within the hobby. You start off with one animal("the" original, or your original in your collection) and you have to breed it to offspring, or offspring together, or whatever to get that morph to be recreated. Now I didn't say you, Kevin, were necessarily doing a lot of it, or any of it, but you can't deny that there has to be SOME level of that going on out there in the hobby. And there is the POSSIBILITY that's whats going on to create the murmurs/rumors that is being heard. That was my point. Just saying that could be whats creating the poss. kinking. Nothing more, nothing less......

Inbreeding and line breeding have been going on with snake breeding for quite some time. Early on, when an individual wanted to reproduce a simple recessive trait from a single animal, say a female, they would take one of the male offspring and breed it back to it's mother to see if it would reproduce. They could also try breeding two of the offspring together. How about the first albino pieds, snows, caramel glows? You would breed the double het offspring back together, brother to sister. This has been an accepted practice for quite some time.

I think with certain morphs out-crossing can help with established problems. Take caramels, for example. We all know of the kinking, but how much does that also have to do with breeding related animals back together? I've produced a kink here and there when breeding caramel to hets that have different parents, but the kinking is usually mild and random. I bred brother and sister together (hets), and the two caramels that were produced were the worst kinked animals I have ever seen! The kinks went all the way from head to tail. One thing that was surprising to me in that clutch was the poss hets that were produced. The last inch or so of tail on them was curled up! It was sort of like a tail on a Chinese Pug. I've never heard of anyone getting any sort of kinking in het caramels before. Every animal in that clutch had some sort of kinking.

At least with this morph, perhaps the secret is in out-crossing. I hear of breeders who have little to no kinking in their caramel stock.
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Jason Royer
Royer Reptiles

Royer Reptiles on Facebook
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signature edited by forum admin. 3/29/07

Thanks, That's what my point was...... but a MUCH better way of putting it! LOL

An alternative explanation could be that the caramel mutation causes both the color we want and the tendency to kink but that environmental variables determine how bad (or if at all) the caramel kinking tendency is expressed. Maybe something went wrong with that clutch (perhaps even before laying) causing the normals to have the tail curl and the caramels to kink in the extreme? I hatched a corn snake with that extreme kinking once and have no idea what the cause was.

Have the customers of the breeders who report long no kink caramel steaks had the same success? If the lack of kinks is due to some difference in husbandry that the caramels require (perhaps in some cases nothing the breeders do on purpose or are even aware of) rather than genetics you wouldn't expect the line to continue kink free. Are there any kink free lines of caramels now (not counting ultramel which is not caramel at all)?

That could absolutely be the case. It's an assumption for me at this point to blame the extreme kinking on the fact that brother and sister were bred, but it was the first thought that came to mind when I saw those caramels out of the egg and then noticed to tails on the poss. hets. I haven't had enough caramel clutches to really come up with any sort of answer, I just found it very interesting to see that. I've had kinking come up, but NOTHING like that. Maybe it's tied to incubation temps? The thing that was odd was the level of kinking in the two caramels in that clutch. It was pretty horrific. No chance of survival. But to also have slight kinking in the poss hets? Was it tied together? If it was an incubation problem, wouldn't all the babies show similar kinking instead of such a different level of kinking?

I don't really know of any line of caramel that someone can claim to be kink free with total certainty. I have a big group of caramel stuff that I'm working with and I don't plan on jumping out of the project. I'd like to experiment to see if there's an answer to that puzzle, try different blood and different incubation temps, husbandry techniques. Maybe there's more to it than just a random problem that pops up.

I'm attaching a pic of one of the two caramels as well as one of the poss hets. There were two caramels that were kinked this badly. All of the poss. hets had tail curls like the one in the other pic.

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Jason Royer
Royer Reptiles

Royer Reptiles on Facebook
_____

signature edited by forum admin. 3/29/07

My thinking is that the caramel mutation includes a much stronger tendency to kink than normal for caramel. And whatever conditions promote kinking are magnified in caramels. If we can just figure out what conditions minimize kinking we could regularly produce non kinked caramels.

I've heard some breeders were having success incubating at lower temp for longer periods to prevent kinking in caramels. like 83 or 84 degrees for 70-80 days I believe.
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1.0 firefly(pos het pied) 1.0 enchi 0.1 bumblebee 0.1 mojave 0.1 butter pastel 0.1 spotnose 0.1 pewter 0.1 pastel 0.1 pied 0.1 het pied 0.1 vanilla 0.7 normals

Also, I wasn't accusing anyone of it. I was throwing a thought out there as a poss. explanation to the poss. kinking creeping up with the Ultramels. I do apologize if I stepped on anyones toes. Just offering up a thought for people to discuss the possibility if that could be a poss. reason for some of the defects. I have the unfortunate tendency of not coming across how I want wen typing. Sometimes I don't put whole thoughts out there and things get takin the wrong way.......

If you say so

I'd say so.
Share what you are willing to. Good information is the key to any future success or avoidance of the project.
I think people should make their decisions on the best evidence available.
Let's see the results, the numbers, the breeders, the photos, the husbandry, the pairings, the weights, the age of the snake the line's of deserts and whatever information you are willing to share.

SHe looks GREAT!!

THat's a real nice adult for sure.....

SANTANA
>>
>>Desert Female by jaymiller242
>>
>>I have every intention of posting a nice cluth of viable eggs from this girl in a few months and of course the babies that hatch out 2 months after that. What does the EvilMorphgod think about that ?
>>-----
>>JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.
>>
>>Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
>>0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
>>1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
>>1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
>>2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
>>12 Tarantulas
>>Last but most Important 2.2 Children
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

BTW Kevin, thanks for manipulating some convo on the board!

Let's talk about why it is GOOD to Worship SATAN..

Why it's better being a vegetarian....

Or what has religion done for me today...

Dish Soaps?

SATAN

>>BTW Kevin, thanks for manipulating some convo on the board!
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

For your next trick, can you make an Asystole appear in my stocking on Saturday night?

I personally like Dawn The apple scented one!!!

Kim,

>>For your next trick, can you make an Asystole appear in my stocking on Saturday night?

I need to learn the trick how to make a MALE now.....

SANTA
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

and buy the real flat line(super reduced super enchi clown(maybe fire?)) from Ralph!!
lol...just kidding
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

So, I take it there is only one in existence...

Something to work towards!!!

Best of luck, Jay.
John
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John Woolard Reptiles

Hey Guys, Thanks for all the well wishes and I hope I am able to shed a little light on the great mystery as to whether or not Desert females are capable of producing good clutches. The decision has been made to put her with a great looking Firefly I got from a friend on here named Marc Seif. He has an absolutly awesome looking FireFly Spinner up for sale in the Balls right now. Wish I had the money for that great looking stud. Have a very Merry Christmas....
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JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.

Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
12 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children