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When identifying a locality specific snake as F1 vs wildcaught, what do you consider a hatchling from a gravid, wildcaught female? If the female was collected when gravid, then laid a clutch of eggs and was released, but you kept a pair of the babies when they hatched, would you consider the babies to be wildcaught or F1?

Thanks,
Michael

Why did "What came first, the chicken or the egg" immediately come to mind when I read your question?

I'd call the offspring WC myself... WC gravid female... you had no part in what she paired with... no human influence in the mating selection etc..

One of those questions I'd simply ask... "What do you think they are?"... and except whatever answer you gave as the correct one.

Gerry

Yes, CH (captive-hatched) F-1's. Any first initial breeding of any unrelated pair of snakes would be F-1's (first filial generation).

That is precisely what my pair of South Florida Mole kings were that I acquired back in 1998. They hatched from a gravid wild-caught female crossing a dirt road intersection. Same thing with my L.t.oligozona I hatched back in 1994. They were from a wild import female sold to me as a Stuart's milksnake that dropped eggs soon after I got her.

Happy New Year everyone!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

So I can understand... If I were to only say I had CH F1 Eastern's... would it be understood what I had were the offspring of a WC gravid female? Are all WC's technically F1's?

"So I can understand... If I were to only say I had CH F1 Eastern's... would it be understood what I had were the offspring of a WC gravid female? Are all WC's technically F1's?"

Yes,.....but of course everyone isn't familiar with the term, but most seasoned herpers are well aware of it. if the wild-caught snake bred with another unrelated snake in the wild, they would indeed be "CH F-1's". Also, it is fairly common to see on price lists the "CH" abbreviation for snakes that laid eggs in captivity after being captured, but never actually bred in captivity.

I am sure there are instances were snakes would meet up and breed with another related sibling, or half-sibling, etc.., but there would be know way of knowing any of this. As long as the prefix "CH" was used, or simply "CH" it is plain for all to see the cituation of origin as much as humanly possible anyway..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

So having done a quick refresher on Mendel's work I believe I see your point... Wild Caughts and Parent Generation are the same thing... any offspring are therefore F1's... but let's take this to an extreme... something I love to do

Lets say Michael (the OP) had observed that gravid female laying her eggs in a hollow log... then built a barricade around that log so the hatchlings couldn't possibly escape... he then harvests a pair of the hatchlings... breeds them... the offpring are F1... F2?

Even more extreme...let's say he stumbles upon a clutch of eggs... builds the same barricade (in essence CH'ing)... finds the eggs pipping the very next day... would he be harvesting WC/PG or F1's?

A step further... stumbles on clutch of eggs... no barricade... eggs pip in the great outdoors the very next day... he harvests a pair... are they WC or F1's?

No need to answer if you don't want... just finished watching the History Channel... I've only now learned the moon is hollow and in fact may be a "Death Star" inhabited by aliens... so this fine line between WC and F1 may not be of any great import

Happy New Year Doug... and to all of you others!

Gerry... or as I'll now be called... F10,009,637

Hey Michael!

I would consider those F1's. They were never in the wild and therefore I don't consider them wc. Just my opinion though.

Dave
DNS Reptiles