Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey everyone i am just a little confused on when breeding putting multiple males to one female?
just for a example:
lets say you have a 1.0 albino and a 1.0 pied and a 0.1 normal, you you place both males with the normal in hopes of breeding are you hoping to get all the babies 100% double het for albino and pied? or just all 100% het or one or the other?
Thanks for the help in advance
Tom

That's just a bad idea.....all the babies will be normal looking and you wont know who fathered the clutch. The babies will either be 100% het albino OR 100% het pied. You can have multiple fathers in a clutch, but not in the same egg. Hope this helps. Chris Hall

ok thank you very much thats what i figured,don't worry i don't plan on that breeding project don't even have a pied yet lol
i was just wondering as to why some breeders do that? If you don't know what the normals could possible contain why risk it?
thanks for the help
Tom
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Ball Pythons
1.0 Poss. het albino (Angel)
0.1 Albino (Corona)
Morelia
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (Sage)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Unknown)
Corns
0.1 Snow (Roxy)
Bearded Dragons
0.1 Blood X Red/Citrus (Coral)
Terrapins
1.0 Diamond Back Terrapin (Crush)

If you breed recessive gene male to a normal girl you can still "back him up" with a codominant male like a spider. That way if all the babies look normal chances are the recessive male fathered the clutch. If you see spider in the clutch it's obvious the spider fathered the clutch. Spider (codominant) x normal = half babies spider and half babies normal. Pied (recessive) x normal. all babies look normal, but are 100% het pied. Hope this helps. Chris Hall

"If you breed recessive gene male to a normal girl you can still "back him up" with a codominant male like a spider. That way if all the babies look normal chances are the recessive male fathered the clutch. If you see spider in the clutch it's obvious the spider fathered the clutch. Spider (codominant) x normal = half babies spider and half babies normal. Pied (recessive) x normal. all babies look normal, but are 100% het pied. Hope this helps. Chris Hall"

With the above situation you have no idea if the normals are het or not. It is just a guess, even if there are no spiders in the clutch.

I have spoke with many people at shows that are selling hets, when I've asked about the parents and what was bred, sometimes they are hets and sometimes they are just possible hets. Some people believe a het to normal makes 100% hets, some believe het to het is 100% het, obviously neither of these breedings results in 100% hets. Other times there is the question of multiple males and not knowing for sure which male fathered which egg. These aren't people trying to hide anything, they admit what the breeding was, they are just incorrect in assuming they have 100% hets.

1) That's why I only breed one male at a time!

2) That's why I only buy hets from reputable breeders that know what they're doing!

That's why I don't buy het anythings!!Even reputable breeders can make mistakes. I doubt any big breeders clean all the het whatever cages. Mistakes can be made. All it takes is 1 mad employee to do some switching around in the het tubs to try to ruin someone. I'll make my own hets!

"If you breed recessive gene male to a normal girl you can still "back him up" with a codominant male like a spider. That way if all the babies look normal chances are the recessive male fathered the clutch. If you see spider in the clutch it's obvious the spider fathered the clutch. Spider (codominant) x normal = half babies spider and half babies normal. Pied (recessive) x normal. all babies look normal, but are 100% het pied. Hope this helps. Chris Hall"

With the above situation you have no idea if the normals are het or not. It is just a guess, even if there are no spiders in the clutch.

I have spoke with many people at shows that are selling hets, when I've asked about the parents and what was bred, sometimes they are hets and sometimes they are just possible hets. Some people believe a het to normal makes 100% hets, some believe het to het is 100% het, obviously neither of these breedings results in 100% hets. Other times there is the question of multiple males and not knowing for sure which male fathered which egg. These aren't people trying to hide anything, they admit what the breeding was, they are just incorrect in assuming they have 100% hets.

Mike I agree totally with what you said. There's a lot of things that could happen and you still wouldn't know who the father is like you get an 6 egg clutch and 4 die early in incubation and 2 "normals" hatch out. You would have no idea who did the deed. Or hatch out 6 eggs with the spider being the father and get all normals because you got killed on the odds. Or you could get a duel sired clutch and not know it and hatch out 2 spiders and 4 what appear to be normals hatch out. I should have taken more time to explain different scenarios. Truth is it's best to use 1 male and know what your getting. Chris

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That is why any back up should be with a "super" as suggested by Justin Kobylka.

By backing up with a super pastel or killer bee, any normal offspring would have to be from the primary father. All the babies from the backup would be pastel or bees.

To add to what was already said...breed to dominant genes to a normal or co-doms that way you know what you got.
With the amount of eggs you still could hit the low end of odds and be wrong when advertising them.
For example: using a Spider and a Albino
Spider to normal should produce half spiders but not a guarantee you could still hit normals...happens all the time
bred to a recessive every baby normal but het 100%...
but if the spider is the father and you hit all normals and advertise as Hets for something else...you are going to have a lot of explaining to do in a couple of years.
Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

Generally you don't use back up or multiple males with recessives. Co-doms or doms you know what genes you got when it leaves the egg - so no worries there - recessives don't give you that luxury - so unless you are just keeping all the babies and what to be surprised later on down the road best not to take chances.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

I agree with the others that tossing more than one visual male to a normal girl wouldn't make much sense. But there can be benefits if it's done with doms, codoms, or even the right way with recessives.

I'm pairing both my Mojo male and my Pewter male with my Pin female. No recessives in the mix. I'd not know who the dad was of any Normals or Pins, but don't think that's too big a deal. Anything with Mojo in it could only be fathered by my Mojo and anyting with Pastel or Cinny could only be fathered by the Pewter.

To answer the question about what the "benefit" could be, for me it's two fold. I'd love to hatch a Jigsaw, also love to go for a Pewter Pin. By doing only one male per year, I could only hope for one or the other each year. If I get lucky and end up with a double daddy clutch (meaning some of the eggs will get fertilized by the Mojo and some by the Pewter) then I could possibly hatch one of each this year. Course the odds gods could go against me and I could hatch neither, but it's kind of like the lotto, can't win if you don't play!

The other part for me is just to add to the anticipation and excitement of the eggs hatching since it will be more options of what could be in the eggs so that much more exciting

As I understand it, the way it works is the females store the sperm from her matings. Then that stored sperm is what is used to fertilize the eggs. If muliple males are used during the breeding season, her store of sperm will be a mix of the males she's been with. Each eggs would get fertilized by just one sperm, so would have just one dad, but different eggs in the clutch could have different dads.

I'm doing it with recessives as well this year but my female is a visual, so no worries about "possible hets". My female Hypo Pastel has been paired with my male Hypo Pastel, male Honeybee, and male Cinny het Hypo. Only the Cinny het Hypo could father a normal, but since the Mom is a visual Hypo then any Normal babies, or Cinny babies for that matter, would be 100% het Hypo. I won't be getting any Normal babies from either of the other two males.

I'm also pairing my Caramel female with both my Hypo Pastel male and my Honey Bee. All babies will be 100% double het for Hypo and Caramel.

Hope this helps a bit...

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Slytherin Serpents

Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 Het Caramels (Edward & Bella)
0.1 Normal 66% ph Caramel (Rosalie)
1.1 Caramels (Crookshanks & Bellatrix)
1.0 Honey Bee (Aragog)
0.1 Hypo Pastel (Nagini)
0.1 Spider 66% ph Hypo(Nymphadora)
1.0 Mojave (Lucius)
1.1 Pastel Lessers (Jacob & Narcissa)
0.1 Pinstripe (Arwen)
1.0 Pewter (Salazar)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)
0.1 Het Pied
0.1 Hypo Cinny (Myrtle)
1.0 Cinny het Hypo poss het Albino
1.1 Pastel Dinkers (Snape & Xiomara)
0.2 Ghana Dinker Babies
0.0.3 CH Dinker Babies

Corns
1.1 Normals het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard het Diffused (Tumnus)
1.0 Blizzard poss het Anery, Hypo, Diffused (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Lavender het Amel (Lucy)
0.1 Plasma poss het Hypo (Victoria)
1.0 Plasma poss het Albino
1.0 Hypo Plasma
1.1 Amel Motleys (Harry & Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Motley poss het diffused
1.0 Lavender Pinstripe Motley het Amel
0.1 Fire poss het Anery, Charcoal, Hypo (LeeLoo)
0.1 Normal het Albino, Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused
1.0 Albino het Lavender, Anery, Charcoal, poss het Diffused
1.1 Sunkissed poss het Plasma (Arthur & Molly)
0.1 Dilute Blue Motley (Myrtle)
1.0 Pastel Motley (Nick)
0.1 Diffused Caramel
1.0 Blizzard 66% poss het Diffused
1.0 Pewter het Albino
0.1 Fire het Charcoal

Thayeri Kings
0.1 Leonis phase (Sidney)
1.0 Milk Snake phase

Milks
1.1 Tangerine Albino Hondurans
0.1 Hypo Tangerine Albino Honduran