Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I beg your pardon for the late reply and for starting a new thread but the old one is too difficult to survey due its structure.
I am also sorry that I took only a once over and that I don't have the time to answer to all of the postings.

My female has had 5 babies last hear. Why? Because I gave her no break after a large litter the year before. The interesting thing was that 3 babies out of 5 were Zeros.
I think this is an indication that this strain is strong.
I know the outcome of similar cases in albino boas. The worst were 26 babies from het albino parents. 25 babies were normal looking, the 26th was a stillborn albino baby. Happend in Switzerland.
This is NO isolated case! I know several similar ones. Not this bad, but approximately. But I think that this is common knowledge meanwhile.
In the light of this what do you make of the Zeros result?
Of course, this is no proof but only an indication (along with the excellent developement of the babies).
As to the Sonoran/leopard boas: The ancestors were imported in the 70ies by merchant from Frankfurt (this was before the cites). On June 6, 1979 the first litter was produced by Bernhard Gudrich from Dreieich. Hansjörg Winner got his animals from this strain and produced the leopards.
It is not my duty to defend boas that I don't even own or breed, but - dear Jeff - I know what I am talking about. I used to be an officer for 23 years and a detective for 6 years and know who to do a research and expose lies.

One of the few reasonable postings was from perfectpredators and I think I own him a reply. In my opinion he has a point. Right now there is only a harm if a purebred boa is bred to a morph in order to get something new.
The real harm was done long ago by criss-crossing different localities and subspecies like mad for the sake of creating more mutations. Furthermore the harm was done by tempting beginners to breed such boas instead of devoting their love and effort in the preservation of pure localities.

In conclusion: Field studies on boas with a transponder showed a movement of 70 Meters within 3 months. So it is safe to assume that a lot of inbreeding happens in boas in the wild. Furthermore: What about the island boas? Inbreeding occurs for thousands of years without harm there. The restriction to only a few bloodlines in some true locality boas is not an argument for crossbreeding.
Please bear with me that I can't write further replies because I have many boas to take care of, I have to update a website and write a novel.
And one thing is for sure: I will not be able to convince you and you will not convince me. So the entire thing is only entertainment and training for my bad english.
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The #1 Boa constrictor website on the internet

Herman,
I am answering only briefly here due to using my iPhone. I am shocked by your justification that your line is "strong" as 3 of 5 were zeros. In contrast you know of a litter of 25 normal and 1 stillborn albino. That simple statement tells me you have little to "zero" understanding of the basic principles of Mendelian genetics. The outcome is nothing to do with strength but instead Mendelian ratios. Your sample size is far from suitable to make that statement. I will elaborate further tomorrow when at my desktop.
Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

Your English is far better than my German Hermann, but that is not excuse for the entirely fabricated assertions you have always made regarding the Boas in the US. This though you have ZERO experience with the origins of our Boa Constrictors. It is interesting to note that when convenient, you are more than happy to acquire particular animals from US breeders that you could not otherwise obtain. You then are willing to accept the anecdotal information given to you. However, if we were talking about Boas you were not interested in, those were crosses. That is how it works isn't it? This without exception.

In fact you ignored taking the intellectually honest route of admitting that you just did not know about our animals. Instead telling everyone that you did know and that they were crosses.

It is interesting to note that you finally admit what we all, and the World over, already knew to be true about you HS. This is summed up in your own words... and I quote, "It is not my duty to defend boas that I don't even own or breed". Of course we already knew that you knew nothing about the Boa Constrictors that condemned as if you had full knowledge about them. That was our point from the very beginning. You don't know anything about our the animals here in the US. We who have obsessed about them and the origins of our animals, did so, in my own case for more than a decade before we ever heard of you and your empty condemnations of everything in the US. This though by your own admission, you knew nothing about them. That pretty much tells everyone all we need to know Hermann. Thank you for making it even more clear for us all.

Still you continue to ignore Jonathan Brady's point that you declared ALL morphs to be inferior and artificial and not worthy of acceptance by anyone who wanted real Boas. You will not address that for one very good reason. You can't without admitting fault. Something you apparently will not do.

Continued on next post...
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

You were an officer for 23 years and a detective for 6. You were probably very good at both of those jobs. However, the art of making an argument that works, is not something that you have any experience with is it? Of course this is an unfair contest given you don’t have any of the facts on your side.

Thank you Hermann. We all look forward to ZERO IV
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

A detective must understand statistics, and the ability to discern small nuances, which convey much.  3 of 5 is how many times I beat my son in chess last Saturday. It is arrogance and folly to presume those odds determine the strength of a gene. Then back it up with a comparison to an albino? Please...

Here is a gem of knowledge for the truly discerning boa keeper: Parthenogenesis happens, and can wreak havoc on Mendelian genetics. 

You came here to promote your new morph. That much is clear. But it seems your posts are more of an instigation. Your stance has always been against morphs period. Now you change your mind with the exception of purity of species. Then elaborate to say it would not be ok to intentionally cross it with another morph to make something new. Would it not be awesome to create a melanistic version of a Zero™, purity maintained?

Many morphs have occurred in multiple subspecies. Until now, your take was always to point out how one looked like this species or that, and was obviously a cross. "All hypos are sabogae", etc... Since there is already a Bci version of your Zero™, known as the Sterling, maybe you can comprehend the principle that random mutations happen, independent of cross breeding.

In the wild there is natural selection, which is controlled by all the facets of mother nature and the grand design. In captivity that is out the window. Boas are living art. There are all kinds of art, and all kinds of artists, and that's what keeps life interesting.

Herman, you dipped your toes in the morph water, and you liked it. Crow tastes nothing like chicken, but in your position, it is the meal of the day.

Best of luck with those bug-eyed Longis. The inbreeding is quite evident.

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Jesse Van Atta
www.foreverboas.com

"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

n/p
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Jesse Van Atta
www.foreverboas.com

"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

"Best of luck with those bug-eyed Longis. The inbreeding is quite evident"

Ouch that was just wrong LOL I've seen a lot of those in several big wig breeder collection's in the states ya know? Its said to see breeders push quickly on a pop up trait and do stuff like that, just because they see dollar signs. Instead why can't they enjoy that snake and wait and thicken up the blood some.

About the inbreeding. According to Hermann's info, the parents are unrelated. They must be buggy-eyed from something else strong in those genes. I apologize.
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Jesse Van Atta
www.foreverboas.com

"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

Everyone knows all SUPER BOAS have buggy eyes!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

>Right now there is only a harm if a purebred boa is bred to a morph in order to get something new.

and again, you are back to your argument that if it's a morph it's not purebred, so therefore- your anery and 'zeros' which are a morph are therefore not purebred. I hope one day you will finally see the falicy of that statement and realize there are plenty of other morphs that are pure, not all obviously, but they do exist in other subspecies and localities...

don't know why I even try.
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

fallacy not falicy.
sheesh oh well