Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.
http://www.kingsnake.com/blog/archives/782-U.S.-to-approve-ban-on-Burmese-and-African-Rock-Pythons.html
Now Burmese Python keepers will be breaking the law by keeping them, breaking the law by turning them loose or breaking the law by selling them off........
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Wow, that will be a big blow to a lot of keepers. Over on FHF, the consensus is those Burms can't spread out of Florida. They say those snakes won't even make it to Northern Florida.
-----
I dig that website you've got there, Ross!
Tim
Thanks a lot, Tim!
-----
Huh? That link only says that it will be illegal to import them, or sell them across state lines. It isn't making them illegal to keep, or to sell within the state. Are they already illegal to keep there then?
Let's say I have a pet burm (I don't, I got retics instead)> I'm in Texas now. I get a job offer in Wyoming...if I keep the snake, I'm breaking the law by taking it with me.
-----
We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
WASHINGTON, DC – The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has finalized a rule that would ban the importation and interstate transportation of four nonnative constrictor snakes that threaten the Everglades and other sensitive ecosystems across the United States, Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar announced today.
The final rule – which incorporates public comments, economic analysis, and environmental assessment – lists the Burmese python, the yellow anaconda, and the northern and southern African pythons as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act in order to restrict their spread in the wild in the United States. It is expected to publish in the Federal Register in the coming days.
“Thanks to the work of our scientists, Senator Bill Nelson, and others, there is a large and growing understanding of the real and immediate threat that the Burmese python and other invasive snakes pose to the Everglades and other ecosystems in the United States,” Salazar said. “The Burmese python has already gained a foothold in the Florida Everglades, and we must do all we can to battle its spread and to prevent further human contributions of invasive snakes that cause economic and environmental damage.”
The four species were assessed by the U.S. Geological Survey as having a high risk of establishing populations and spreading to other geographic areas in that agency’s 2009 report, Giant Constrictors: Biological and Management Profiles and an Establishment Risk Assessment for Large Species of Pythons, Anacondas, and the Boa Constrictor.
Sixty days after publication of the final rule in the Federal Register, interstate transport and importation of live individuals, gametes, viable eggs, or hybrids of the Burmese python, northern and southern African pythons and yellow anaconda into the United States will be prohibited. None of these species is native to the United States.
“Burmese pythons have already caused substantial harm in Florida,” said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe. “By taking this action today, we will help prevent further harm from these large constrictor snakes to native wildlife, especially in habitats that can support constrictor snake populations across the southern United States and in U.S. territories.”
Ashe said the Service will continue to consider listing as injurious the five other species of nonnative snakes that the agency also proposed in 2010 – the reticulated python, boa constrictor, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda and Beni anaconda. Once that process is completed, the Service will publish final determinations on those species.
Most people who own any of these four species will not be affected. Those who own any of these four species of snakes will be allowed to keep them if allowed by state law. However, they cannot take, send, or sell them across state lines. Those who wish to export these species may do so from a designated port within their state after acquiring appropriate permits from the Service.
This doesn't look good for anybody. Soon all of us can say goodbye to our reptiles.
Just a simple thougt, banning something thats already established is just plain silly. But then thats how governemnts work. Sorry folks, our time is limited, dam good thing I am old.
But the time some of you folks get my age, you will be looking at old empty cages, telling your grandkids of the time you could actually have animals in them.
I'll start cramming politicians into my cages at th is rate.
-----
We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
How do you think they will police something that is so big now, it doesn't seem like it could be done. Banning them doesn't make them disappear. I will always keeps reptiles, no matter what! Plus, I know where I will always be able to find burms........lol!
-----
Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
That's just it!,......they WON'T be able to "police" with any efficiency whatsoever, they will simply hassle the more responsible owners on their records. I see this country has already done a FINE job of keeping handguns and AK's out of the hands of all the piece-of-crap gang-bangers and worthless thugs throughout this country.
Nobody can "un-invent" or abolish something that is already WELL-ESTABLISHED, no matter what it is. They can only jerk with the better people that responsibly own them as a "smoke screen" ploy for the more common ignorant people of the country to witness and take note so it "looks" like something positive is being done about the "problem" at hand.
The bottom line is that you CANNOT efficiently outlaw stupidity!. If this was the case, at least 3/4's of the country would already be sitting in jail..LOL!
~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
Yeah, this country does not have enough problems to worry about, so I can see how they would pass some law like this! WTF!!! Are they crazy? I agree with Frank on this one, thats right Frank, I agree with ya!. Are snakes will be gone from our possession in the near future. Guess I will have to break the law when that happens because they can kiss my arse!
Joe
That's right Joe,........
It's a very complex double-edged sword really. I sure as HECK am not saying there are NOT plenty of idiots that have ever owned large snakes irresponsibly, because I most certainly am not. The irresponsible jerks are a large percentage of why this issue ever came to light in the first place. The girl getting killed by the parent's snake was one of the key "straws" that broke the camels back with this thing. The other smaller percentage was probably Hurricane Andrew that destroyed much of Miami/Dade.
The small colubrids we all own are harmless "constrictors", and I can only hope to god the mentality of the general public won't also start applying it everything smaller eventually. That's when they will REALLY see "criminals", because like I said many times before, they will literally have to pry the colubrid from my cold dead hands..LOL!..
~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
It seems to me that a simple fix would be to require stringent liscences for the giant snakes, like you need for venomous? They haven't banned the ownership of Cobras, they just made it hard for the average ding dong to get their hands on them. The fear is that they won't stop with the giants.
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Jorge, that would be nice but "simple fix" and our government dont seem to get along. I do agree though, if some sort of "extra tax" was placed on the purchase of the pythons then they would get more money. We all know they respond well to that. LOL
Joe
>>Jorge, that would be nice but "simple fix" and our government dont seem to get along. I do agree though, if some sort of "extra tax" was placed on the purchase of the pythons then they would get more money. We all know they respond well to that. LOL
>>
>>Joe
I think, if i'm not mistaken there already is a 100 dollar licence fee for Burms here in Florida? I think?
-----
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
$60 exotic license here in Texas.......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
If they ban everything, I see a good reason for another industry bailout. I want money back that I've spent building a business that would be considered illegal.
-----
Brandon Osborne Reptiles
That's another excellent scenario..LOL!
And this country never hesitates to "chop it's nose off in spite of it's face". This country does this ALL THE TIME!!!!!
~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
I will say I'm thinking about scrubbing as much of my online stuff as I can clean of ANY mention of my retics--particularly sites wehre I use my real name. They're not on this yet but I'm still worried. I've tried to be both open and responsible about my keeping, to counter the negative stereotypes people have but I'm just frigging worried right now.
-----
We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
Too late. You're on the list!
You have *shouldn't* have anything to worry about unless you plan to bring your animals to a different state.
-----
www.brooksi.com
Yeah Nick, God forbid we "bootleg" a snake across state lines. LOL. Our laws need some serious revamping. IMO. I still cannot believe weed is illegal. (definitely should not drive on it, like alcohol). But all folks want to do is eat capt. crunch and watch cartoons. When I was still working in DC, it was a FELONY to have oral sex and the average murderer only served seven years in jail! You would get sent to the DC court for a murder charge, but to FEDERAL court for killing a duck out of season. WTF. Guess I am getting off course here---sorry but this crap pisses me off!!!
Joe
That is a very valid concern. All it takes is some very simple researching. I often wonder about this myself.
~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
One way this will affect me personally and as a business is that even though I have no intention of breeding burms or yellow 'condas, I intended to use them in my educational reptile show business, which, as of this year, has grown into an almost full time job. By next year I expect it to be full time.
While I can still obviously keep these animals within the state, I've been getting requests to do shows in other states. Maybe I should bring in empty cages and tell the kids and teachers, "Sorry, FWS says I can't show you this animal."
-----
---
www.austinreptileshows.com
www.snakerack.info
www.mikefoux.com
Hondurans
Pueblans
Corns
Grey-banded King
California Kings
Speckled Kings (Calcasieu Parish locality)
Brooksi
Goini/Brooksi Crosses
San Diego gophers
Texas Rat
Jungle Carpet Python
Ball Python
BCI
Sulcata
Leopard Geckos
Wife, Caucasius Mexicana Integrade WC
>>...I intended to use them in my educational reptile show business...While I can still obviously keep these animals within the state, I've been getting requests to do shows in other states. Maybe I should bring in empty cages and tell the kids and teachers, "Sorry, FWS says I can't show you this animal."
Actually, if you want a genuinely educational reptile show that wouldn't be a bad idea. I mean, you can't really argue that being unable to show a burn or whatever would actually preclude you from presenting a genuine, beneficial educational reptile show, can you? So why not display an empty cage as a lead-in to an important conversation about exotics, and invasives, and conservation?
You just cant cross state lines with them
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!
>>You just cant cross state lines with them
>>-----
>>Cindy Steinle
>>PHFaust
>>Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
>> Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!
for what it's worth i kept australian grass parakeets back in the day when they were subject to the same regulations. It complicated life, but it didn't preclude people from keeping and breeding them. But the activity centered on florida and california, two states where people already possessed a number of them, and where there were enough others interested in them that sales could be generated within one's own state. things will change, but not end.
>>>>You just cant cross state lines with them
We got that part Cindy......But the idea of soldiers fighting for our freedom all over the world while our own government here at home takes our freedom away just makes most of us sick.....
>>for what it's worth i kept australian grass parakeets back in the day when they were subject to the same regulations. It complicated life, but it didn't preclude people from keeping and breeding them. But the activity centered on florida and california, two states where people already possessed a number of them, and where there were enough others interested in them that sales could be generated within one's own state. things will change, but not end.
Yeah but states like California, Florida and Texas are big enough to sustain themselves in many ways including the snake trade, oil, crops, textiles, etc....(maybe not Califonia...lol)......What about the smaller, less populated states?
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>Yeah but states like California, Florida and Texas are big enough to sustain themselves in many ways including the snake trade, oil, crops, textiles, etc....(maybe not Califonia...lol)......What about the smaller, less populated states?
You're right, John. This'll have devastating effects on giant snake breeders in states that offer inadequate markets for their production. And it'll effectively eliminate the opportunity for ole to GET specimens in the few states that don't already have breeders or breeding stock within their borders. The only beneficiaries I can anticipate are those in states without big breeders, who set up small breeding operations to be the suppliers for buyers in their states. It's hard to judge whether the environment will benefit in any way from this. I'd hope it wouldn't lead to even more animals being dumped in the wild. That wouldn't reflect very well on herpeticulturusrs, but I worry it's a real possibility.
This across state lines ban will make business hard for my friend who has a large burm collection, and who sells at the shows. Now he will have to just do shows in his home state of California, not in Nevada or other states, anymore.
If the government wants to save the environment, why not ban real estate developers! That is the one upside to this collapsed economy; less land is being destroyed to build crap.
-----
Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
" I'd hope it wouldn't lead to even more animals being dumped in the wild. That wouldn't reflect very well on herpeticulturusrs, but I worry it's a real possibility"
I'm afraid that will be a very REAL scenario Terry. It only makes good common sense that it would. The scary thing is that the lawmaker's are desperately trying to make a change, but don't know how to realistically go about it. This "change" will VERY likely back-fire and create even MORE large constrictor releases throughout the country than there ever was before. The hoorible part is none of this will be known for certain until it happens and is too late..............AGAIN!!!
Sort of like "spending a dollar to save a dime",...it more than defeats the entire purpose, it actually makes things much worse than if you never did anything in the first place...
Society does alot of things without knowing anything about what they are doing.....look at the Cane Toad thing. That was one of the biggest man-made ecological back-fire blunders in history that originated to "help" the environment, now they are rampant in Florida and Australia and kill-off other animals.
Every aspect of what was "supposed" to happen never did, even the stupid beetle's they were "supposed" to control were too high up the Cane stalks for the toads to even reach...DUUHHH!!!
I can guarantee this proposal won't do anything like it is meant to do either, it will simply be another huge "back-fire" blunder from our government that is merely 'portraying" they will make things better to upease the general masses that don't care, or know ANYTHING about snakes anyway.
On the other side of the coin though, something needs to happen with all of the irresponsible idiot's that own many of the large constrictors. But it is also impossible to outlaw stupidity, so what is one to do?????...
~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
>> I'd hope it wouldn't lead to even more animals being dumped in the wild. That wouldn't reflect very well on herpeticulturusrs, but I worry it's a real possibility.
43 calls and emails as of right now. People wanting to surrender their snakes. Some news outlets are reporting pythons in general so calls have increased.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!
>>>>>>You just cant cross state lines with them
>>
>>We got that part Cindy......But the idea of soldiers fighting for our freedom all over the world while our own government here at home takes our freedom away just makes most of us sick.....
>>
Hey I am just glad the burmese that was here til last summer is gone. He was a marine's snake that I took for his tour in Afganistan. Yeah.... That would have been fun explaining.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!
That would have sucked! My littlest sister is going in a couple months for her first tour. It's pretty crazy!!!
-----
Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
Burms and rocks have been under attack for a long long time. The final push they needed was the Everglades situation. It was inevitable. They simply are stopping the ability to legally bring them across state lines, which slowly hampers sales and eventually (they think) lessens the number owned. Probably all true. I don't think this is a big stepping stone. I think it was the inevitable result of what was in motion for many many years. I hope I am correct.
Help, tips & resources quick links
Manage your user and advertising accounts
Advertising and services purchase quick links
