Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hope that people come to the realization sooner, rather than later, what's going on here. We've already seen this play out at the Congressional level - except FWS has actually had success with this.

Originally, HR6311 (in 2008) and HR669 (same exact bill but reintroduced in 2009) sought to ban ALL non-native animals in the US. ALL OF THEM. Literally, the only things that were safe were cats, dogs, goldfish, and livestock. That's it.

HR6311/HR669 failed MISERABLY due to the overreaching scope of the bill and the MASSIVE cohesive nature of the owners of these animals coming together to fight it (mainly the Reptile Nation, honestly - but others were there). This bill was backed by a radical animal rights organization known as the "Defenders of Wildlife" who used a report entitled "broken screens" to justify their efforts. They probably knew it would fail, but why not try, just in case it works?

So what happened after that? What would YOU do if you tried to eat an ENTIRE pizza in one mouthful and failed? Well, you'd probably decide that eating this HUGE pizza is easier if broken up into pizza slices. It's easier to eat an entire pizza, slice by slice than it is all at once. And hey, even if you don't eat the ENTIRE pizza, at least you got most of it. And with most of it gone, the rest won't be difficult to eat at a later date because it's not a whole pizza anymore (or in the case of HR6311/HR669 - it's not the ENTIRE COUNTRY'S animal owners banded together).

This is when HR2811 and S373 were introduced. They just focused on 40 species of python originally. S373 was later amended to focus on the "big 9" by Senator Nelson (one of the names you should recognize from today's announcement). These two bills have since died in Congress. Thanks again, to the OVERWHELMING opposition of the Reptile Nation.

This is when the organizations involved began to realize they'd need another avenue to achieve their goals. So, we found ourselves in the current predicament. We were in jeopardy of losing the big 9. But, the opposition put up was VERY strong and again, this PIZZA SLICE was just a little too big. So, what'd they do to make it more palatable? They trimmed it down some. Now, the other 5 are left standing, probably without the help of the owners of the 4 we lost today. So, our collective voice is becoming smaller and smaller as the government eats away at our rights.

So don't think for a MINUTE that "the big 9" is the end goal. NO NO NO NO NO! HR6311 and HR669 ARE THE REAL END GOAL!!! Because USFWS isn't the organization who's REALLY pushing this. It's the radical animal rights groups. And the USFWS, ENP, NPS, USGS and DOI are simply pawns in their game.

MAKE NO MISTAKE - the ability to keep pets of ANY KIND are under attack in this country. And not just "everything but cats, dogs and goldfish" - those three are under attack too by HSUS/PETA.

So, when I say that we can NOT celebrate today as a victory, I mean it. We lost a battle today - but the greater war wages on. Will you stand beside me and fight it?

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com Site received a complete makeover! Check it out!

I agree the fight will continue, but USARK saved our butts on this one. Boas would be gone if not for USARK and its supporters. Sad day for the burms and other listed on the list. We must not let our gusrd down as this battle will go on for decades. We should see this setback as an opportunity to become stronger , and not weaker. Many burm breeders have boas as well. I hope that if you havent seen the value of USARK , that you see it now. Please keep USARK strong with your hard earned $$$$$.

The only celebration should be for USARK and a job well done. I've been a member for several years and have been able to upgrade my membership annually (now Gold) and volunteer more time annually since I joined. It's a good feeling to know that my efforts have helped to fight the various fights and that my money is going towards helping our community thrive.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com Site received a complete makeover! Check it out!

I think the Feds were At the table eating slice by slice BUT so was USARK and a ton of reptile keepers and USARK and the keepers ate more slices faster.

Think positive JB. They took 4 years to take pythons and boas almost no one keeps. How many decades will it take to get animals people do keep...

Not to mention it probably wouldn't be worth it for them to spend the millions again for this result they got....especially in our economy.

I think we won! Especially us boa guys in this forum. The burms, African rocks and yellow anaconda guys I feel for.

>>Think positive JB. They took 4 years to take pythons and boas almost no one keeps. How many decades will it take to get animals people do keep...
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>>Not to mention it probably wouldn't be worth it for them to spend the millions again for this result they got....especially in our economy.

All I say to that is... "what about the 4-minute mile?"

As long as competitive 1-mile racing was around (200+ years I believe), no one believed that ANYONE could run a mile in less than 4 minutes. Hundreds... Thousands... TENS OF THOUSANDS of races were run and NO ONE broke a 4-minute mile.

Then one day, the unthinkable happened... In May of 1954, Roger Bannister ran a mile in 3:59.4. The ENTIRE WORLD was absolutely blown away by this feat! It was said that this would NEVER happen again.

Two months later, two men (one of which was Roger Bannister) competed against each other and both finished the race in under 4 minutes. This was a feat that NO ONE thought would be repeated and now, 2 men had accomplished it a mere 2 months after it happened the first time.

So let me ask you; what was stopping people from doing it? How did this event take place for over 200 years with no one able to achieve a particular goal and then within 2 months, it happens 3 times?

Was it that running a mile in less than 4 minutes was physically impossible and then all of the sudden it was no longer impossible, or was it more likely a mental hurdle (pardon the running pun) that simply needed to be leaped or an improvement in training so that others could believe in themselves enough to do it too?

The current record is a mile run in 3:43.13 - a time WELL BELOW that 4 minute mark.

So yes. It took 4 years for them to achieve something once. But, now that they know it's possible, how long before they offer up a repeat performance. It took over 200 years for runners to achieve something HUGE and then it was repeated in 2 months. It took FWS 4 years to achieve this, how long until they're back at it looking for a repeat?

Boas are NOT safe. And to assert as much will only hinder any future rallying that needs to be done to fight for our rights.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com Site received a complete makeover! Check it out!

The 4 minute mile was done, It was completed 4 years ago. this was going down and congress was buying usfws bs story hook line and sinker. And usark showed them otherwise, and is why this is a victory because we lost first and now won 2nd (in terms of boas) this is a sort of overturning. If it wasn't for USARK and all Thr grass roots campaigning in protest 2nd only to the Vietnam war, we'd be looking at a 2 minute mile in the books, but what we have as of today is a 4 minute some seconds mile because the opposition held the runner by the shirt and held back his time.

Will they quit, I think not, in fact they're probably strengthen up to come back stronger. I don't see quit in us, I know you're not quitting and neither am I. So we do it again, we earn enough in our daily jobs and enjoy this hobby to support this cause as long as it takes, I agree they have laid out ground work they've started the creep n crawl necessary to add to, however we fight and we win. We quit and we lose. Insanity is practicing the same action expecting a different result and we'll just have to show them how insane they are on the boas.

I hate to say it but I saw waaaaay too many people over their heads with the burms here in sfla to really hurt about the burms, but the action of the groundwork set today is of course disturbing, they have found burms, AR and yellow anacondas, so they can justify today. Boas would be over reaching and we need to stop then there. USARK is now more vital than ever, by no means is there job done and can go sail into the sunset.

JB they could of thrown boas in today, why didn't they? Answer me that and lets rejoice on it for a while.

If they do research and find proof that boas have similar husbandry / living environments than those of the banned species, then we're screwed.

The reason for the ban has to do with the potential for a species to do harm to the natural ecology. That's why they call them invasive species.

Their concern with large constrictors is that people let them go when they get too big.

All they need to do is determine that a boa can survive in the same environment, and that people will let them go because they are so big, and that will probably be enough for them to add them.

I hope they aren't reading this thread, but this may be the reality of it all.

We definitely need to keep up the battle.

-Anthony

I disagree. Boas don't get too big, live birth and none have been found in breeding populations or even in small quantities. I hope they try and embarrass themselves. Private message this sort of talk or leave it on face book where only your friends can see it. They are definitely watching this site.

The NRA is familiar with long hard fought battles. The govt has taken away some of our 2nd ammendment rights , but thanks to the NRA I am still able to carry if I so choose. The boa victory is a victory , and USARK is looking for ways to overturn the burm ruling. We will never stop fighting. I will say it is VERY Important to find out where our elected officials stand before we vote our party lines. Dont assume that all repubs will fight for us and not all dems are against us. Educate yourself !

That's as close a comparison as you can find. Every year everyone fears gun laws are coming to change your rights and because of the NRA they fall by the wayside. They'll pull a gun or type off the market but the popular guns everyone likes are safe year after year...

I really hope you are correct. Your post is the only one that has made me feel o.k. about todays "win"
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"Go Big or Go Home" Muscle Morph Constrictors Inc. Long Island, New York * MuscleMorphConstrictors@yahoo.com

I agree 100%, and then some!

I am way passed being pissed-off at the threat of having my boas outlawed. What I’m furious about is the manipulation of the political system and the deceit, the distortion of the truth, the out-right lying by our government representatives and federal employees for the advancement of their own agendas! I’m not going to be happy with the revocation or repeal of laws or rules that are based on faulty/fabricated science. I want the perpetrators of the lies and deceit exposed and punished. It’s about time we held those we trust (and pay) to serve our best interests accountable when they go off track and commit fraud for the advancement of their own interests!

It’s my intention to fight this action just as fervently as if my very livelihood depended on it. I don’t have burms, af-rocks, or anacondas, but so what? And my boas are a hobby, not my livelihood, or even my life’s ambition (but I do enjoy them very much). It’s gotten to the point that it’s not even about the animals anymore. What I am pissed-off about is that “we-the-people” are being abused by those we elected and those whose salaries are provided by our tax dollars. I’m mad that there are corrupt individuals that are (in fairly plain sight) allowed to abuse our system of government for their own selfish purposes. They’ve pushed me beyond the point of being a disenfranchised reptile hobbyist to becoming an activist hell-bent on exposing those corrupt individuals and broken political systems.

agreed, mark. VERY well-put.

Great analogy JB....

Lets keep fighting.
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Richard Ceniceros

Hey! I have been with my owner for 20 years. I never did anything to deserve this, I dont even hang out with burmese pythons! But I do like it here in Florida! I guess I'll just stay in Florida for the rest of my life ...could be worse, I could be stuck in Montana or something I hear its quite cold there!

Andy Conda

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Pythons.Net
StuInfo.org

If you want to let MR. Salazar hear you and you are a member of facbook. Visit him and let him know your feelings and how professional we are and how united we are as a community.
Link
https://www.facebook.com/SecretarySalazar

I agree with JB.

I'm glad to hear that USARK is making plans to get Burms, AfRocks and Yellow Anacondas back.

If this is on the books in any way, we are threatened. It would be so easy to add other species to an already existing list.

Our attitude should be that, since we can still keep and sell boas, we should use our time and resources to reverse the decision already made. We should not think that we're safe and wait for them to come after boas.

Don’t relax because your species didn’t get hit.

They’re already working on paperwork for Ball Pythons! We need to get with BP owners and come up with a plan.

"We have to take the fight to them" and "the best defense is a good offense" should be our mentalities.

This is a lucky respite and not the end of the fight.

We need to get Burms, AfRocks and Yellow Anacondas BACK!

Aaron
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www.voodoomagicboas.com