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I took some pics of my Pahokee Florida Kings. These came from a WC pair in Palm Beach Co. Im not sure if these would be F1's or since the parents were locked up at capture are they F0's?
2011 female
Male #2 2011. This guy is the biggest at 31" the other two are only an inch or two shorter.
Male #1 and I think the best looking.
Here is a Dade Co. King from WC parents from Nick Mesa. He is a 2009 and is around 3.5'.
All great looking animals. Captive born. Would guess if you have both parents f1s, but if you found gravid female or not 100% sure male was only sire then i'd go with the f0s! just opinion. Dave
I love seeing new pics of those guys. I ended up with 1.3 from a WC female brooksi. They all shed yesterday.....
Here's the boy....
and here are the girls.
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
All very sweet looking, and that male is definitely going to be exceptional!
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
Love those Brooksi!
lu
Thanks, one day we are going to have to do a litlle F1 trading.
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
Yep
Lu
Very, Very nice animals. If you figure out what to call the first ones, F-1 or F-0, let me know. I have some LTT with the same exact scenario!! LOL
Joe
>>Very, Very nice animals. If you figure out what to call the first ones, F-1 or F-0, let me know. I have some LTT with the same exact scenario!! LOL
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>>Joe
Here's my opinion on the filial generation nomenclature......
The parents were wild caught. The eggs were laid in captivity, incubated by the keeper in captivity and hatched in captivity.......I would call them F1s as they are one filial generation from the wild since captive husbandry allowed them to breath air.......
How about this question......what are the results of an F1 X F3?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
F1 is first generation in captivity. I believe the earliest generation of the pair sets the generation. If I bred a WC snake to a 11th generation in captivity snake then the babies would be f1's. The reason I ask the question is I cant be 100% that the male she was locked up with at capture is the father. She might be a slut and hooked up with some other Kings earlier in the day??? There is also the possibility of more than one dad to the clutch as well. Anyway since it wasnt humans that had these kids come together I look at it as a more natural breeding plus if these hadnt been collected the exact same babies would be running around outside as we post. Either way F1's or F0's is fine with me just curious what the standard was in this instance.
Lu
I call anything like ours CH. It explains what they are perfectly.
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
>>F1 is first generation in captivity. I believe the earliest generation of the pair sets the generation. If I bred a WC snake to a 11th generation in captivity snake then the babies would be f1's. The reason I ask the question is I cant be 100% that the male she was locked up with at capture is the father. She might be a slut and hooked up with some other Kings earlier in the day??? There is also the possibility of more than one dad to the clutch as well. Anyway since it wasnt humans that had these kids come together I look at it as a more natural breeding plus if these hadnt been collected the exact same babies would be running around outside as we post. Either way F1's or F0's is fine with me just curious what the standard was in this instance.
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>>Lu
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But they were hatched in captivity......so much could've gone wrong but you made sure it didn't.....No wild pressures at all on those eggs.....
F1 is just a designation for a filial year of any project snake or generation from the wild......
If you breed F11s to F3s the offspring are STILL 12 generations from the wild from one parent.....They will be F12s in my book.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
1 x 3 = 3 come on man, you know that.......lol!
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
That is true, but the parents found each other on their own in the wild and that is a lot different than someone collecting two of the nicest brooksi and breeding them. I do understand they were incubated in captivity, but they are still more natural than F1's who's parents were selected and brought together by the breeder. This to me is a special situation and requires being described rather than labelling them F0 or F1, imo. Same goes for F1 X F3. All that goes out the window and you must describe what was bred to what. Just my opinion.
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I agree!
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
>>That is true, but the parents found each other on their own in the wild and that is a lot different than someone collecting two of the nicest brooksi and breeding them. I do understand they were incubated in captivity, but they are still more natural than F1's who's parents were selected and brought together by the breeder. This to me is a special situation and requires being described rather than labelling them F0 or F1, imo. Same goes for F1 X F3. All that goes out the window and you must describe what was bred to what. Just my opinion.
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I believe if you breed an animal 4 generations from the wild, F4 to an animal 3 generations from the wild, F3 the offspring are still 5 generations from the wild from one parent and should not be called anything better than F5s......
But you are absolutely correct.....The best thing to do is advertise them as F4 X F3 offspring......And let folks opinions "label" them......
Plus eggs laid, incubated and hatched in captivity have no pressures the wild has.....They are certainly captive hatched......and maybe that is the BEST answer.....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Here's my take, in the case of Lu's snakes, I would have no problem calling them ch or cb, but I would definitely explain their situation because they are more desirable that way. If by chance ch means they were conceived in the wild, I didn't know that. If ch means just what it says, then all our snakes are ch unless they ar wc. That's I why I would explain the situation. With F3 X F4, yes they are at least 5 generations out, but I wouldn't call them F5. To me F4 X F4 is F5. You know, I think this is starting to sound ridiculous, I'll stop there. lol
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>>Here's my take, in the case of Lu's snakes, I would have no problem calling them ch or cb, but I would definitely explain their situation because they are more desirable that way. If by chance ch means they were conceived in the wild, I didn't know that. If ch means just what it says, then all our snakes are ch unless they ar wc. That's I why I would explain the situation. With F3 X F4, yes they are at least 5 generations out, but I wouldn't call them F5. To me F4 X F4 is F5. You know, I think this is starting to sound ridiculous, I'll stop there. lol
LOL...I understand exactly what you mean......They are just our labels.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Very nice!.......yes very nice!..
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
Those Pahokee kings are nice!
I'd generally consider the offspring from a wild-gravid female an F-0, as I had no control over the breeding, and they are still essentially wild-produced.
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www.brooksi.com
I HAVE A WEAKNESS FOR THE CLASSICS!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
Very nice! Don't forget me when you have Pahokee babies this year.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
That adult is one nice looking Florida king! Wow, and locality too.
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