Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Since Boas arent on the list , what are we suing them about ??????????????? The Burms are on the list , and good luck reversing that one. I hope so, but preventive is way better than after the fact. The burm people are finding this out now. Hopefully every herper wakes up and supports usark, so we never have to sue any one to reverse bad policy. USARK gives us chance to keep it from becoming policy. Burms were destined for this doom, because we were way too late too the dance. We should have been proactive 15-20 yrs ago and we wouldnt be in this situation. With boas we are 10 yrs ahead of whear we were with burms. Lets stick together and we will protect our rights. Lets learn our lesson. Without representation in Washington, we wouldnt stand a chance.

We would be suing because the entire process was based on completely inaccurate Science.

It's not just only about Boas.

Our organization is called USARK

United States Association Of Reptile Keepers

We are supposed to be a United group under one common issue Reptiles
also Amphibian enthusiasts should and probably are included at least as suggested member's.

We should not loose our Privilege of keeping any of the species originally listed.

We should not loose our privilege to keep Burmese Pythons, Yellow Anacondas and Norther /Southern African Rock Pythons based on an entirely corrupt process.

The Science used to gain this Lacey Listing is fatally
flawed science.

Under that premises a Law Suit should be Filed against those responsible for this injustice!

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I agree that we need to sue over the banned reptiles, and USARK will probably do just that. I am just saying if we would have been on board 15-20 yrs ago we wouldnt be in this situation. Most assumed it was fear tactics. We found out the fear was not unfounded. Lets make sure we arent suing about boas , balls , newts ........Our letter campaign did in fact keep boas off the list. The boa people were probably the most proactive of the big 9 and did much of the heavy lifting. I will support any law suit that USARK and its attorneys come up with.

Dan if you think that our letters did anything to keep off the list you must be on something! If you read the actual listing you will see that our letters did nothing to keep boas off the list. The only reason they were left off was to keep the financial impact below a predetermined number.

Also if you think we have 10 years before they will try to put boas on the list you are wrong!!! They already have the Boa on the listing as "high risk" the only other animal that wasn't banned with that high of a risk rating.

They are coming for boas SOON!!!! I would guess they will push them through on the list in the next year two at the most.

We need to fight this with a law suit. Sure it takes 150,000 to get the suit started thats 15,000 from the 10 biggest breeders or roughly the cost of one high dollar animal. That will get the ball rolling and all the donations from little guys like us can keep it going.

If we allow this ban to stay we are allowing them to ban any other animal they want in the future based on the precedent this ban sets.

boas aren't on the list **YET**

they are STILL under consideration.

they STILL want to include them.

they STILL have "evidence" (irrelevant that it's fatally flawed) that boas are a "HIGH" risk.

and for all those who think the process has to be completely re-started from scratch, that's just plain FALSE.

i have it on good word (i.e. from a high-ranking official at the USFWS) that they do NOT in fact have to start the process over. they are perfectly within their rights to hold off on the 5 while going forward with the 4 separately. in other words, we may have JUST as little notice about an announcement regarding boas as we did about the one involving the burms. we could very easily wake up monday morning to find that boas have also been added.

THAT is why we are suing. because it's NOT over, and we are STILL "on the chopping block". all this last announcement was was a "stay of execution". we're still "sentenced to death", we just have a little more time to enjoy life.

the success or failure of a lawsuit is the only LEGITIMATE way we have to not only reverse this ruling, but prevent the other 5 from being added.

THIS IS WHY WE FIGHT.

A high ranking official ? Come on man lets stop the nonsense and fight. We need 200k and that shouldnt be hard. About 50 bucks per herper and we have it. Donate now. They (USARK) accept Pay Pal.

how on earth is this nonsense???

there are SO many rumors flying around it's not funny. what we need is some SOLID information on what we can expect, and that's exactly what this is.

it doesn't mean i'm not fighting (which your post implied), it means i'm ensuring i have ACCURATE information AS i fight - which SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE don't bother to do, which makes them look completely ignorant and harmless. people can scream and holler all they want but if all they ever do is throw around unfounded rumors and wildly inaccurate information, they look like idiots. THAT is what i'm avoiding.

dan80woma said:
Since Boas arent on the list , what are we suing them about ??????????????? The Burms are on the list , and good luck reversing that one. I hope so, but preventive is way better than after the fact. The burm people are finding this out now. Hopefully every herper wakes up and supports usark, so we never have to sue any one to reverse bad policy. USARK gives us chance to keep it from becoming policy.

USARK is precissely the entity that is suing for the lost cause.

They are asking for $150,000 to "begin" a federal lawsuit against fish and wildlife. Read that carefully, once you "begin" this process you must follow through. That means someone or some entity better be ready with nearly $5,000,000 more dollars. Does anyone suppose that USARK can generate an average of $200 from EVERY ONE of their target of 25,000 herpers? I don't. They cannot even get that many people to sign a letter or petition, let alone donate $200.

Once again USARK is setting up the herp community for failure. Andrew Wyatt has a conflict of interest with his own supporters. He is the largest single draw of funds from the USARK coffers.

Mark my words. Next legal decision that gets made against the herp community USARK will claim victory and ask for money. He just did it again with the Lacey Act listing of burms, he will do it again.

All of this is just one big id10t error.

I forgot one thing.

When an entitity sues the federal government and loses, the feds then will get awarded attorneys fees for defending a losing suit. You cannot bankrupt out of a federal debt. Who is gonna pay that bill?

In the likely event of a loss, is the board of directors ready to personally be on the hook for USARK debt?

Gary Bagnall, you'd better check with your personal attorney on this one. You've got the deepest pockets in that group.

lets see some pictures of you boa collection. Please do not support USARK. We dont need or want you.

Wow, you need to try and disguise yourself better. You are probably on the board for HSUS. You have no clue what you are talking about or have such a radical view that you have polluted your brain. Boas were svaed by USARK, and yes we will raise the money needed to win this lawsuit. Now please get back to pre school, your teacher is looking for you.

dan honestly guys like that aren't even worth addressing.

I know , but I couldnt help it. Too easy and Im a smart a$$ !

no, I am not HSUS.

You guys can't see the forest because the flipping trees are in the way.

Best wishes.

I see your kind crystal clear. Now lets see your boa collection.

>>Wow, you need to try and disguise yourself better. You are probably on the board for HSUS. You have no clue what you are talking about or have such a radical view that you have polluted your brain. Boas were svaed by USARK, and yes we will raise the money needed to win this lawsuit. Now please get back to pre school, your teacher is looking for you.

Hey Dan,

Boas were not saved. Boas are just on the side burner right now. The government has already stated the other species are not off the table. Here is my thoughts. One at a time so financial impact is lower. I am betting that is the direction the govt is looking too. I hope Boa Owners/Breeders/fans realize this before it is too late.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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Nothing in the future is certain other than our own demise. We have won one of many battles. Pleas read blog on Johnathon Brady's site. Litlle chance that boas will be touched for several years at least, and pythons (burms) have a chance via law suit. Thanks to us and USARK.

>>Nothing in the future is certain other than our own demise. We have won one of many battles. Pleas read blog on Johnathon Brady's site. Litlle chance that boas will be touched for several years at least, and pythons (burms) have a chance via law suit. Thanks to us and USARK.

I didnt notice a win, I noticed 4 species lost right away and 5 more still sitting on the chopping block. I also noticed 2 states start enacting bans as well as several cities nationwide, including one I think we blocked here in WI. I would like to mention that if that one city in WI was a full block, you all need to kiss a pit bull because that was the group that stopped it. Not reptile people.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
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