Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've spoken with the proprietor of a show here in Florida about this as an idea and actually had positive feedback from them:

1. Patron entry into ANY Reptile oriented expo in the US has part of their payment applied to an organization to support 'The Industry' (say $2.50 to $5.00 per person).

2. Vendors at all of these shows must pay an additional fee (or the proprietor of a show uses part of the table fee already paid) toward the same organization.

3. A benefit auction is mandatory for every Expo (similar to say the NRBE in Daytona) in some form or fashion.

I'm not going to name any organizations as recipients, but there seem to be two relevant choices at this time. The show organizers nationally would obviously need to 'meet' in some form or fashion and agree to this as an action to create a united front and cash pool if you will. The information is out there on who and where there are shows nearly every weekend of the year (heck, this site has a TON of them listed). Potentially, a not for profit could be the 'binding' entity for national sponsorship of sorts. Information would be provided to every patron that a part of their entry fee is going to support their hobby/business and explain why this is happening.

I can tell you this, with the numbers of patrons and vendors at shows around this country every year there would be little shortage of funds to fight for our rights. Think about the money numbers... I think they would be pretty hefty.

Maybe my idea is crazy and I'm just not seeing that, but I think it may have merit. There may 'need' to be a national, united bind for all (most) Expos to save themselves... I think it would be in their (and our) best interest.

Any constructive input welcome-

Matt
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

These are great ideas.
A donation box at the reptile, rabbit, marine/freshwater expos, dog, cat, rat (yes they even have those shows), and the others would be great too. Getting all the other industries on board would be very beneficial as well, considering they will be affected eventually.

Also if adding to the price of the entrance ticket it should not be an amount that puts it over the threshold a person would pay for entrance to the show.

Something would have to be done to make sure organizers or the facilities themselves do not pocket the money (human nature). Possibly something like expo attendees making a donation directly to the organization to get
a discounted ticket to the expo.
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-AnthillPython.com-

"1. Patron entry into ANY Reptile oriented expo in the US has part of their payment applied to an organization to support 'The Industry' (say $2.50 to $5.00 per person).

2. Vendors at all of these shows must pay an additional fee (or the proprietor of a show uses part of the table fee already paid) toward the same organization.

3. A benefit auction is mandatory for every Expo (similar to say the NRBE in Daytona) in some form or fashion."

Isnt this still the United States of America? Who are you to tell anyone that they have to support anyone, pay any additional fees or have a benefit for some organisation???? If people want to then fine but you telling anyone that this BS is mandatory??? move to Cuba or China and run your expos there comrade!
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

Thanks for the constructive input-

Matt

>>Isnt this still the United States of America? Who are you to tell anyone that they have to support anyone, pay any additional fees or have a benefit for some organisation???? If people want to then fine but you telling anyone that this BS is mandatory??? move to Cuba or China and run your expos there comrade!
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>>Evan Stahl Reptiles
>>www.evanstahl.com
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

I see both sides of the above post....I believe it shouldn't be mandatory but should be plugged and advertised and talked about as much as possible and leave it up to the vendors and the customers to decide. Maybe each show donate a table and have a rep from the "two willing to fight for your rights to own a reptile". I know as a vendor that doesnt own any on the list I would still be willing to donate a snake or two for a raffle type fund raiser every show.
Seriously...

Not so seriously....
Maybe hire "Hooter girls" with donation buckets...lol

Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

>>Isnt this still the United States of America? Who are you to tell anyone that they have to support anyone, pay any additional fees or have a benefit for some organisation???? If people want to then fine but you telling anyone that this BS is mandatory??? move to Cuba or China and run your expos there comrade!
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>>Evan Stahl Reptiles
>>www.evanstahl.com

Years ago, I used to race motorcycles off-road quite a bit. To enter into ANY events in the region I was in, I had to be a member of the sanctioning organization and the AMA. At first, I felt similar to how you are in your post above. Then, I realized that THEY were the ONLY thing keeping this going for me to enjoy since the onslaught at the Federal level and 'Special' interest groups was pretty much NON stop year after year. I wish things were different, but 'we' did what we had to do and had a choice to either participate or risk being regulated and left behind. Funny, they are BOTH still working well in my opinion, still retained massive membership and 'The Public' still have places to ride and enjoy their sport. My idea was simply one to present on a similar foundation. You don't like it, plain and simple. Why not post an idea or two instead of calling my Comrade?!?

Matt
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

I do think its a doable option for the masses but with the amount of shows and expos out there I dont think you would need to do $2.50-5.00/person. If you really think about it...the amount of people going to a Repticon show for a 2 day event or Daytona for that matter and how many locations these shows are being put on I would think .50-1.00 would be more than enough. Possibly get these vendors & organizers to donate a percentage to the cause. I would imagine that all the parents of kids with leopard geckos and bearded dragons mostly likely know nothing of this "ban" and as these shows & expos lose snakes, most likely they wont exist anymore. Obviously this isnt including all your other sorts of pet trades either...

You may be onto something here...it was a thought that ran through my mind as well but good to see you already got a jump on it!

As for the "communist" reference...Do you really think that all the taxes you pay year in and out go where you want them too or where you approve? So in this isntance, something that supports our cause and many others for a legitamate purpose you shoot down with a comment in reference to a monarchy?

I can understand some not agreeing to the donation for rat, rabbit, chicken shows do to the fact we use them as feeders, lol.

Matt, much of what you are suggesting is being done. At the most recent show here in So. Cal there was a USARK table. Vendors did provide reptiles and supplies for an auction. At some of the shows there are 50/50 raffles. Money is not enough!
The Senators and Representatives that voted for the bill all received cash donations. Their support, their vote, was purchased.
We have something that is equally powerful, our vote! I'm on Facebook and received a News Feed from Kingsnake with a link that shows whom supported and whom opposed the bill. How many of us that are on Kingsnake on a regular basis actually vote? How many of us actually looked at this information? Here's the link: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2811/money
We should all let our Senators and Representatives know that they have lost our support, our vote, if they supported this bill. That information needs to get out to the public. It should be provided at shows. It should be on the home page of reptile websites, etc.
I'll stop my rant at this point. Hopefully you and others will understand that just giving some money is not enough!
John Quinones aka John Q

Good luck with that ...

...shows...$8 to get in...people pay $16 to go into a show let's say...the three kids go free....then they gotta pay like $3.75 for a hot dog maybe at some shows...that's x 5...and sodas/water....like another $1.75 each x at least 3 to 5....

then they need some frozen mice...some rats,,,some crikets, a new screen lid and maybe a light bulb for Skippy..the lizard....

add $25 to get there for gas?.....

so...they are now broke....and all the money left was spent on lottery tickets ,cigarettes and beer the day before....

....no cash for organizations....

.....heck...they had no cash for a snake....so the vender went home and sold none to them....

......happens...alot....all lose....

......table fees....if the table fee is split to go to pay for stuff...it would go up in price...and they are up now...

figure out what a good show makes...200 tables x $75....1500 people x $8 ........on a good day...a show promoter can make 40 to 50 grand...on a bad day...they can lose $$$$

....just takin ....just talkin.......
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........JY

>>1. Patron entry into ANY Reptile oriented expo in the US has part of their payment applied to an organization to support 'The Industry' (say $2.50 to $5.00 per person).
>>
Here is an issue that I see. The fee to enter will merely be raised. Thus a 10 wristband is now going to cost attendees 15 bucks. As others mentioned this may be cost prohibitive to internal spending. The door cost goes into paying for hall rental, paying staffing, paying for tables, etc... There is overhead for these shows. Yes there is often profit for the show promoters, but that is kinda their job.

>>2. Vendors at all of these shows must pay an additional fee (or the proprietor of a show uses part of the table fee already paid) toward the same organization.
>>
This I dont think is that big of a deal and I would venture to say many of the vendors paying for booths are members of ARK or other like organizations. However requiring membership in one sole organization when that organization is NOT promoting the show as their business is hard. Then in turn begging to get free bees from the vendors might be a bit hard.

>>3. A benefit auction is mandatory for every Expo (similar to say the NRBE in Daytona) in some form or fashion.
>>
The vast majority of larger shows do this already. NARBC, Reptile Supershows, Daytona. They ALL have huge auctions. The past few years all the auctions have gone to either ARK or PIJAC/USARK. This is common. Is your local show not doing this? Why not? Ask that promoter. Perhaps they dont have man power or perhaps there is no where to hold it, perhaps they dont have the ability to rent a hall afterwards. These issues all need to be looked at on the local level. Also shows that are say bi weekly. 50/50 raffles may work better as opposed to auction. There are other ways to drum up donations.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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All good points Cindy- I was looking at the whole thing from cash needed to lobby in DC, plain and simple (as much cash as possible if that is the need). You know me... I'm an extremist at times. Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures and a willingness for everyone to make major sacrifices (not the black-metal kinda sacrifices! ). Just talking out loud....

M
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"Change what you cannot accept... do not accept what you can't change!"

Tod Ashley C.$.C.

>>All good points Cindy- I was looking at the whole thing from cash needed to lobby in DC, plain and simple (as much cash as possible if that is the need). You know me... I'm an extremist at times. Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures and a willingness for everyone to make major sacrifices (not the black-metal kinda sacrifices! ). Just talking out loud....
>>

I think a nice Deicide sacrifice would be in order.

I am not sure the best path right now. While USARK is off worrying about the burmese ban and lawsuits, I wonder who is paying attention and helping with the two states that are slamming laws thru, Ohio is still not a complete win, Penn just breezed thru a law on mammals and birds so reptiles cant be far behind. Of course then there are all the small ones in the cities. Who is tending those fires? We need cash to lobby, but we also need to look at what and where we need to lobby at. If we loose the states, really what good is fighting the federal lacey act addition?
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
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Although I would prefer not to charge more people admission, this isn't a bad idea.......after all, especially when it comes to these BIG shows, without the bigger breeders coming in from out of state, they really wouldn't have much of a show......fewer big breeders equals fewer visitors, which means they lose money anyways......

And yes, I understand not everyone is there for snakes, but even the ability to look at beautiful snakes makes the show that much more interesting to them.....

This wouldn't be a bad idea for some steady money for USARK.......I'm not thinking a huge charge, but $1 or $2 per person shouldn't break anyone.....

Just a thought........still proud to be an American......lol.....

Brandon Boeke
Priceless Pythons