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Does anyone else use a full room heating system INSTEAD of flexwatt or heat cable? It is something that I'm trying in my snake room currently. For those who have tried this, did you have any trouble establishing a thermal gradient in your cages? That's the one thing I still can't quite figure out. The cage temps just kinda stay around 80-83, with not much variation from spot to spot. What do you guys think?
-Wade
>>Does anyone else use a full room heating system INSTEAD of flexwatt or heat cable? It is something that I'm trying in my snake room currently. For those who have tried this, did you have any trouble establishing a thermal gradient in your cages? That's the one thing I still can't quite figure out. The cage temps just kinda stay around 80-83, with not much variation from spot to spot. What do you guys think?
>>
>>-Wade
In my opinion it is best to cool your room then provide hot spots for a thermal gradient..........another gradient that is important is humidity........
If your room is 83 now, how hot is it going to be in the Summer?
It'll be impossible to provide cool spots.......eh?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
While some of the more "durable" species will do OK with a constant temp I will have to go with John on this one. Actually I'll even go a step further and say it is simply a fact that all species will be healthier in general when given a temp range.
If you speak with anyone that has a large collection and changed at some point from a constant room temp to a temp gradiant, they will tell you that most of the unexplained problems that were happening here and there in their collection just seem to stop.
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Randy Whittington
>>While some of the more "durable" species will do OK with a constant temp I will have to go with John on this one. Actually I'll even go a step further and say it is simply a fact that all species will be healthier in general when given a temp range.
>>If you speak with anyone that has a large collection and changed at some point from a constant room temp to a temp gradiant, they will tell you that most of the unexplained problems that were happening here and there in their collection just seem to stop.
And breeding problems like egg binding and fertility problems decrease........in my mind I think that movement to multiple desired temps, humidity and secrecy spots give the animal more exercise than one that doesn't have these options......I also see a better feeding response from hatchling mexicana and mountain kings.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I totally agree.
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Randy Whittington
Not all animals can take it, that's for sure. I have a small group of Corallus, they will die like that. I keep all my turtles with extreme temp ranges. I understand the importance of it but some species don't require it.
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
>>Not all animals can take it, that's for sure. I have a small group of Corallus, they will die like that. I keep all my turtles with extreme temp ranges. I understand the importance of it but some species don't require it.
>>
I pretty much agree, but most of my collection is made up of montane and mexicana kings.....so I se no reason to keep my getula, situla, pituophis, diones or sinaloans any different.......but I do keep my loxocemus different......lol
Btw.....you do great with turtles, why would you think your kings wouldnt enjoy the chance to choose temps and humidity......thermoregulate?
I've tried both ways and have seen tremendous improvements.......kinda like you see with your turtles...........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I give them humidity choices and the temps fluctuate during the day and night. Once I move into my new house I'm going back to Freedom Breeders and then they will have it again. No feeding, or breeding issues. My snakes are very active and move around their cages. They shed and have no BM issues. What gets better? This is with my eastern getula, I believe with your animals and for most others it is very important. Also, my turtles are outside, it's the best way to give them choices. I don't take drugs, so my snakes don't talk to me. I don't have any problems at all. I can't stop laughing when Davis says he learned......hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Davis, these guys love skinks....you just learned that.....
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
Come on Gerald! Reread your first couple of sentences in your post again. Do you really want to be directing someone looking for advice as to what their snakes can tolerate or do OK with or do you want to direct them to what you, as an experienced keeper, know is in their snakes best interest. Or atleast mention that it's the optimal way.
I don't mean to be giving you a hard time in paticular but it's just that I know you know what's best.
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Randy Whittington
You are right, it is the optimal way. I was only talking to John about a small portion of my collection. To the OP, if I had the choice right now I would have them set up as they say. I was more responding to one small part of the thread. If you can keep the room cool and provide a small heat source your snakes will chose what they want when they want. It is important and if you can provide it you won't have any problems.
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
I've been doing it that way for as long as I can remember. I'm reluctant to use the heat tape, for several reasons, but I have never had a problem with the warm room technique. I do get a slight temp drop at night, which is normal. Foe choices I give them plenty of levels, and hides, and moist hides. I've been able to breed a wide variety of colubrids this way from Corns to Kings, even Thayeri/Ruthvens. This year I should have several Alterna breeding. Right now I have the heat off and the room is at the coolest end of my house, so it's getting naturally cycled light and temps.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
>>I've been doing it that way for as long as I can remember. I'm reluctant to use the heat tape, for several reasons, but I have never had a problem with the warm room technique. I do get a slight temp drop at night, which is normal. Foe choices I give them plenty of levels, and hides, and moist hides. I've been able to breed a wide variety of colubrids this way from Corns to Kings, even Thayeri/Ruthvens. This year I should have several Alterna breeding. Right now I have the heat off and the room is at the coolest end of my house, so it's getting naturally cycled light and temps.
I wish you luck Jorge.........
With most kings from higher elevationsthose temps will kill viable sperm......
But typically they will already be shooting blanks without a true cool down.......
Maybe you had good luck with that hybrid vigor.........lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>I wish you luck Jorge.........
>>With most kings from higher elevationsthose temps will kill viable sperm......
>>
>>But typically they will already be shooting blanks without a true cool down.......
>>
>>Maybe you had good luck with that hybrid vigor.........lol
>>-----
>>John Lassiter
No, I have bred Alterna before for several years, and it worked with them also. They may not exactly be montaine though? That might explain why I have never had success with Pyros, who knows? But all the snakes I plan on breeding this year should do fine. 
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
it was amost 80 today here in Central Florida, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Thank you both for the responses, they were helpful. My collection consists of mostly kings and corns, so I'm going to continue the full room heat with an added night drop down to something like 78. Just to get some temperature variation in there.
I don't think I will have problems in the summer, because right now I'm using an oil-filled heater to maintain temps. In the summer I can just turn it off if needed.
-Wade
>>Thank you both for the responses, they were helpful. My collection consists of mostly kings and corns, so I'm going to continue the full room heat with an added night drop down to something like 78. Just to get some temperature variation in there.
>>
>>I don't think I will have problems in the summer, because right now I'm using an oil-filled heater to maintain temps. In the summer I can just turn it off if needed.
>>
>>-Wade
I guess it's all about geographic location...
If I turned my A/C off it would be 120F in my snake room.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I keep my the same way and I got 84 today.
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
>>I keep my the same way and I got 84 today.
>>-----
And....I guess it depends on what you keep......AND if you want them to breed successfully.......
I always give my opinion with the pretense that someone is wanting their snakes to breed.........not just a keeper........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I do breed my animals. I always keep my snakes this way and have always been successful.
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
>>I do breed my animals. I always keep my snakes this way and have always been successful.
I wasn't aiming that at you Gerard......just in general my replies are more geared towards breeding not knowing if the OP is a breeder or not...........
Man it must not even get that hot in Florida as compared to South Texas....
And you know the old saying.......a female getula or corn will lay fertile eggs if they were downwind of a male......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Just send me those melanistics and I will see if they will breed like this too. Lol! No but really, send them to me..........please......just kidding........unless you want too.
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
>>Just send me those melanistics and I will see if they will breed like this too. Lol! No but really, send them to me..........please......just kidding........unless you want too.
LOL........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Ok, I will wait!
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
>>it was amost 80 today here in Central Florida, lol.
Here too.....And it may even rain tomorrow......We are only 20 inches behind from 2011...
But....My snakes are at 51F as of 10 minutes ago...I will warm them up to room temperature in 3 weeks...
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
yeah static temps for herps isnt good.
longterm static temps will cause digestion problems as well immune, growth, reproductive, problems.
live and learn.
i try and shoot for mid to low 70s room temps with 10to15 degree gradients w/heattapes.
temp. gradients are one of the most important aspects of herp keeping sadly many cannot grasp them or simply dont care enough to provide them.
the more you provide the more successful you will be.
same with humidity gradients.
listen to the snakes they will tell you what they like. you cannot listen to them by keeping them at a static temps.
good luck
,,,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
These guys love skinks, did you know that?
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
>>These guys love skinks, did you know that?
hahaha
s i go through the forum i keep coming across this picture at predictable frequencies, hahahaha...
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odelay odelay odelay hee hoooo...
heeeeya huhhhh!
~Back in the saddle (Aerosmith)
I agree Thomas.....I've actually kept kings both ways and have seen waaaaaaay more improvements with a temp, light and humidity gradient........
When I think of a hot room for reptiles I think of pythons, boas and lizards........not lampropeltis, especially montane and mexicana complex kings.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
yeah me too!!!
guess we have lived and learned or rather we were taught by our snakes. sadly i suspect many here dont feel they can "learn" anything from their snakes, me thinks "control issues" as many here will "learn" from books and people and such... kinda sad really.
,,,,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Hi guys,
I agree completely, temp and humidity choices are critical and often overlooked. Although, all of my herps (boids, colubrids, monitors, turts) are kept in a building that is cool (low-mid 60s) this time of year. All cages have access to to heat (90-105f) at all times and all animals utilize both the hot and cool extremes, as they are given choices to select what they need. Visitors are shocked to see jungles comfortably sitting at 62F and wonder how i avoid uri.
All of my buddies who went with high room heat suffered all of those health issues that you guys mentioned and utterly failed at reproduction. Most who tried it ultimately quit the hobby cause it just wouldn't work out "their way".
Will
well said will.
its not that it cant be done... but for truely thriving in ALL aspects... choices are THE WAY plain and simple.
what baffles me is the folks who want to argue that point OR justify mediocre keeping.
,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
It's ok not to understand something little buddy! If you couldn't do it that way, stick to what works for you. Keep talking to them, you will figure it out one day.
Did you know mole kings like skinks?
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
>>It's ok not to understand something little buddy! If you couldn't do it that way, stick to what works for you. Keep talking to them, you will figure it out one day.
>>
>>Did you know mole kings like skinks?
>>-----
>>Gerard
He'll figure it out eventually, lol!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
I used full room heating back when I bred in the nineties and had excellent results, and I use it now as well, using a low profile convection heater. Never had egg binding issues, had large, healthy clutches, and had good success. I do believe though that a thermal gradient IS the best way, if you are able to afford or build racks with heat. Not everyone can afford racks such as those, but if you can, I would highly recommend it.
Since I keep pits mostly, my temps are slightly cooler, varying from 81 to 75 all throughout the day, more often being in the upper 70s. Kings are kept higher in the room, while pits, depending on species, are kept accordingly in various areas.
Since I have stopped trying to have one steady temp all of the time, I have had also much better growth results, within the past year especially, when I started doing nightime drops, and then allowing the heat from the house to heat up the room, thus having slight temp changes throughout the day. My point is, I am having really good results having the temps fluctuate, instead of just one solid temp all of the time.
Just my experience.
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Genesis 1:1
I didn't expect this thread to blow up like this. Well, one thing I like about this forum is that not everyone thinks the same! If everyone thought like me I would just go talk to my self right? So everyone had good comments, and good points to make. Well, almost everyone, lol. I never said that constant heat was the ideal way to keep colubrids, the OP asked what we thought of it, and I answered honestly, that I have been doing it this same way for decades really. Some hinted that I was inexperienced, and even unable to learn, ha ha! Yet I seem to do alright with what I have. Everything isn't always black or white, there are many things that need to be considered. In my case it's almost impossible for me to cool my snake room to 70, so the heat tape is not an option. Also with all the reptile room fires we've been seeing, who is sure those heat tapes aren't the cause of some maybe even many of those fires? Ever wonder why the manufacturers take no responsibility for damage caused by them? Now I admit that offering choices has to be good right? I mean the animals know when to move from the hot to the cold! So are snakes smarter than lizards? They must be cause I know many lizards have cooked themselves on heat rocks that get too hot..hmmm? Call me old fashion but I get great results the Old School way, and I seem to be in good company! Check this guy out, in this link....
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
If you really want to go "old school" we can bring up those that did it WAAAAAY before BHB.....
Robert Applegate, Ernie Wagner and even our own Frank Retes.....
It all depends on works for you and what you want to apply from all of the infomation out there. Applegate and others have success with groups of kings in elaborate subfloor drawer type enclosures with many "choices." Ernie Wagner was one of the pioneers that brought up the idea of a winter cooling for captive breeding of colubrids. And we all know Frank Retes' opinions and techniques that have been successfull.
So, just like anything......If you want an answer on the internet you can find it, even if there are two opposite answers to choose from.........lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
My point is that there is more than one way to get the job done. I agree choices would be the best route but it's not the way that best fits everyones situation. I still get good results at a much lower cost, and no fire risk. It certainly doesn't make me unable to learn, or inexperienced. It's the better choice for me.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
You are correct. The attitude you just experienced was again, one of the flaws of this forum.
Both are great ways to go about it. I have checked out the temp differences in my snake room, with room heating, and I do have just that. I even said that I do think having a gradient is best, but I am not in the position to do so, at the moment. Our humble way of saying what we do is good, and others are better, is just that, a humble way to view things.
I know breeders that have hatched more snakes than anyone on this forum that have used and do currently use room heating with again, their results to show for it.
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Genesis 1:1
I no longer do but at one time did. My take is that it can be effective but is not very efficient.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson
My opinion, based on my own tinkerings and seeing what others have experienced, is that gradients are the preferred method. However, if you go with the heated room approach, provide a nightime temp drop. I'm speaking about kings and milks.
Obviously, I think some of this depends on what kind of snake(s)you are keeping/breeding. I am not sure the heating the whole room method would work well with mountain kings. Maybe so, has someone had success with that? I know folks who have success heating the whole room and some, like myself who prefer a gradient. I might have to give that providing a hot spot during winter a go. Actually, my deppei have that options right now and the male is still feeding, while the female has shut down and stay on the cool side. Interesting.
Joe
>>Obviously, I think some of this depends on what kind of snake(s)you are keeping/breeding. I am not sure the heating the whole room method would work well with mountain kings. Maybe so, has someone had success with that? I know folks who have success heating the whole room and some, like myself who prefer a gradient. I might have to give that providing a hot spot during winter a go. Actually, my deppei have that options right now and the male is still feeding, while the female has shut down and stay on the cool side. Interesting.
Yes it depends on subspecies of Lampros......
AND....it depends on your geographic location......
Heating a room would NEVER be done where I live.....
I always have to cool it....Always......We seem to have natural heat year round here.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I just block off the AC vent as much as needed to obtain the proper temps. So no extra electricity is involved. I lost half my collection once because of a thermostat malfunction. That is another reason, I am reluctant to use any heat source.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Posted by: a153fish at Wed Jan 25 14:13:52 2012 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by a153fish ] [ Follow this user in Connect ]
I just block off the AC vent as much as needed to obtain the proper temps.
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,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
really?!?! and exactly what are the proper room temps for snakes to properly digest and assimilate their food properly jorge?
and if and when those temps or temp (is it a certain degree?) are acheived, when are the snakes allowed to cool off or get away from those or that temp/temps? or are they?
there are LOTS of ways to acheive temp. gradients.
,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Check this guy out...
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
so you cant answer a direct question huh jorge?
to funny...
ask brian about choices...
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
I already said that giving them choices would be the optimum way. But are you calling Brian mediocre? I think that if it were not a good alternative Brian would not use it. He does use heat strips for his pythons, by the way.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
brians awsome!
ask him about choices.
but still, you keep avoiding/dodging my simple direct question to you jorge.
,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
I also noticed that you and everyone else here agrees that the more temp gradient they can choose and utilize as they see fit, the more otimum it would ultimately be. I also think if Barczyk was here himself posting what you did, he would be all fine and dandy with it, and say.."yep, Bian, there are several different ways to raise snakes successfully, and you are definitely "the man"!.
But since it is you insted of Bearczyk, or any one of a few other guys here that he likes to make problems with, no matter how you kept your snakes, he will try to find ways to bust your ba!!s .......regardless.
I mean, isn't that always how it goes here?
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
That's what I was hinting at, but I guess we have to come right out and say it, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
you know what you can do with your hints???
YOU STILL HAVNT ANSWERED MY SIMPLE QUESTION...
,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Brian keeps his snakes between 82 and 84. If it's good enough for him and he is "Awesome", then it's good enough for me! That doesn't mean that in the future I won't try to switch over to a freedom breeder, if I find a $1,000.00 laying around that I don't need. Now tell me, and Brian what we are doing wrong. Did I mention Brian is awesome?
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
wow talk about "issues" geeeeeeez, what exactly did you spell out???
freedom breeder???
1000 dollars?!?!?
brian found what works for him in his situation over YEARS its called experience he earned and learned plus he is up north and you are in fla. geography has ALOT to do w/it and you are certainly no brian.
i will go out on a limb and say brian would never encourage anyone to keep snakes at a static 82-84 temps without ANY choices, why dontcha proove me wrong since you seem so passionate about doin just that or perhaps you should just ask him about temp. choices rather than trying(and failing) to allign yourself w/him.
i never said you were wrong jorge what said is IT is wrong to keep herps at static temps, you seem to want to defend static temps which really REALLY shows how much/little you know about snakes/reptiles in general. they are ectotherms get a clue and quit trying to defend poor husbandry.
there are many MANY ways to accomplish temp.and humidity choices that require little to no money
hahahahahahahahaa spell it out... what a joke
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
internet tough guys is you can't just talk to them. They have to argue anything and everything. The funny thing with them is how they act in person. I can't wait to see that part........
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
Exactly Jorge.
I have met Thomas in person, and he is a very nice guy. Very different than on the net.
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Genesis 1:1
Actually...even thought my post was meant for Gerard, and I said Jorge..getting two really cool guys mixed up ain't all bad.
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Genesis 1:1
>>Actually...even thought my post was meant for Gerard, and I said Jorge..getting two really cool guys mixed up ain't all bad.
>>-----
>>Genesis 1:1
Ha ha they say your memory is the second thing to go, lol. I've been loosing mine for some time too Doug!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
>>brian found what works for him in his situation over YEARS its called experience he earned and learned plus he is up north and you are in fla. geography has ALOT to do w/it and you are certainly no brian.
So 82 to 84 up north is different, than 82 to 84 here in Florida? Gotcha, thanks for that science lesson. Guess what else, I found what works best for me too, but your rght about one thing. I'm not Brian, but I do keep my colubrids the same way...hhhmmm. Maybe I just nedd to change my name, and everything will be ok? Thanks for those helpfull explanations, no... really, thanks.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Hey Jorge,
I don't know you or Brian but I also keep my snakes with only the heat supply in my home. I have kept and bred colubrids since the 80's and mine always appear healthy, active, and reproduce anually. I have always been told the proof is in the pudding and unhealthy snakes just don't keep performing to that degree. I'm sure there are times when they would like to see a few degrees warmer or cooler but I don't think there are any extremes that would stress them to the point of adversely effecting their health. Are there better ways to do it, i'm sure there are but that's what works for me and I don't feel like my snakes are suffering in any way.
Jack Noles
The truth is, that is how a large portion of herpers keep their snakes. That's how it was always done before the freedom breeder era. Only a few were stepping out and using the heat tape method, and I congratulate them! There are many that I know still use room heat, but won't say it here, cause they don't want to be confronted and labeled as I was. If it's working for you, then stick to what works. Like I said before I may switch over to heat tape, but frankly, I don't feel too comfortable with all the fires that have been happening in reptile rooms. But hey that's just me. I don't expect everyone to follow me.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
>>The truth is, that is how a large portion of herpers keep their snakes. That's how it was always done before the freedom breeder era. Only a few were stepping out and using the heat tape method, and I congratulate them! There are many that I know still use room heat, but won't say it here, cause they don't want to be confronted and labeled as I was. If it's working for you, then stick to what works. Like I said before I may switch over to heat tape, but frankly, I don't feel too comfortable with all the fires that have been happening in reptile rooms. But hey that's just me. I don't expect everyone to follow me.
The ones that did provide thermal gradients back them are Bob Applegate, Ernie Wagner, Frank Retes, Lloyd Lemke and others......True pioneers of our hobby before this so-called "freedom breeder era" you speak of....These pioneers used heat cables made for water pipes mainly and made their own cages with many options to learn from their snakes.......In a snake's enclosure you put a hidebox, clean water weekly, a moist hide, substrate, feed them correctly and know what temps are dangerous for them, etc. BECAUSE of them.....
I think the freedom breeder era just brought about the rack system way of keeping snakes like Brian Barczyk, Rainer, Mark Bell and others....
But you are VERY correct is stating....."If it's working for you, then stick to what works."
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I've always liked the Applegate enclosiers!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
>>I've always liked the Applegate enclosiers!
me too....that's what my invention is based off of........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I have been successful the way I have been doing but it is always possible that I can improve on my husbandry. I work for a greenhouse manufacturing company and I'm somewhat of an expert at environmental controls so I would have no problem making the adjustment. Has anyone used hydronic tube heat in their snake rooms. That might cut out the potential for fires from the electrical heat. I'll attach a photo of the tubes used. All you do is circulate hot water from a water heater through these tubes.
Jack
I never heard of that. That might be a great alternative!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
>>I have been successful the way I have been doing but it is always possible that I can improve on my husbandry. I work for a greenhouse manufacturing company and I'm somewhat of an expert at environmental controls so I would have no problem making the adjustment. Has anyone used hydronic tube heat in their snake rooms. That might cut out the potential for fires from the electrical heat. I'll attach a photo of the tubes used. All you do is circulate hot water from a water heater through these tubes.
>>
>>Jack
>>
Very interesting....seems like it would create humidity as well........Hmmmmmmm
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
There shouldn't be any humidity unless you have a leaky system. It operates as a closed system and just recirculates whenever the thermostat tells it to do so. There is no incoming water to the water heater so there's no pressure in the system except some when the pump circulates the water. This works great in a greenhouse because you can keep the air temperature low but keep the bench the plants are sitting on nice and warm. It is actually more economical than heating the entire greenhouse.
>>There shouldn't be any humidity unless you have a leaky system. It operates as a closed system and just recirculates whenever the thermostat tells it to do so. There is no incoming water to the water heater so there's no pressure in the system except some when the pump circulates the water. This works great in a greenhouse because you can keep the air temperature low but keep the bench the plants are sitting on nice and warm. It is actually more economical than heating the entire greenhouse.
I guess the only there wouldn't be moisture/condensation if the room was cold and the water in the steel tubes was hot?
Very interesting idea to incorporate into the herpetoculture.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
those are really cool, and have tremendos potential in the herp mrkt. imho someone should mrkt them as a safe alternative to traditional heating methods for herps.
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Kind of a HVAC setup. I'm going to try making one. Very cool!
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
There are many products in the greenhouse industry that could work well with reptiles as well. I think some of the heating pads used in herpetoculture were actually developed to heat trays of bedding plants. There are lots of electronic controllers that can link to a pc and track temperatures and chart them. Even the vermiculite we have used in incubation is a soil additive in horticulture.
It's funny, he try's to act tough online and then begs you to teach him about temps. Ha!
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
what a lame bs post doug. since you want to "jump in" as always i will ask you even though i know you like jorge wont or cant answer this very simple straight forward question.
what are or is the static temp/temps that snakes need to properly digest and assimilate their food?
,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
"what are or is the static temp/temps that snakes need to properly digest and assimilate their food?'
Use some common sense Davis,...everyone knows it is precisely somewhere between 32 degrees and 150 degrees, but it depends...
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
I know I've been a bit distant these past few months (work/time related, nothing more...) and I'd hoped to see us all one big happy eventually.....Hatfields and McCoys still.....see you fells in another few months. Sheesh! LOL.
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Jerry Kruse
UPDATED!
www.zonatas.com
And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."
very good 
your getting it! dougs ACTUALLY learning to DANCE!
,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Hi thomas,
I think it depends on the meal that has been injested. All of my snakes can digest small to moderately sized meals while utilizing a variety of temps from real cool to warm. However it is only when they eat a giant meal that they choose really hot temps. In those cases they will bake (over 100F) for a short period of time and transition to cool and then go back and forth until the bolus subsides. Those are some of the types of problems my buddies had with whole room heat. The snakes couldn't handle large meals, because they could never transition from really hot to cool to moderate. The animals would puke after a day or two. Thanks.
Will
hi will, i completely agree and understand. i was just asking jorge his temp, since he is one who "favors" a static room temp over ALLOWING choices. as you well know without temp gradients reptiles cannot assimilate or digest their food properly, ESPECIALLY large meals. this can domino into a host of problems from fertility, to growth, to reproductive capacity, eggbinding, etc. not mention the nasty things like ameobas that will grow/thrive in a reptile that is immune comprimised because of NOT being ALLOWED to thermoregulate.
,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
"i was just asking jorge his temp, since he is one who "favors" a static room temp over ALLOWING choices."
I am beginning to think that Jorge is not really serious. I mean, he can't be , right?
He is been trolling here and fueling the fire for his own kicks and giggles.
Gee, hmm, I wonder.. I don't know which Jorge i would prefer?
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Haven't you? You know, the guy who really does breed "Thousands" of snakes every year, lol!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
You know I think your awesome too! I agree, and I have seen that also, so I feed smaller meals more often, and I get good results. Well, there were a couple snakes I got from that crazy guy, that kept puking till they died, even after being treated. But everyone seems to overlook that I have said repeatedly, that temp choices is the best way to go, but for now I have to do it this way. Or I choose to do it this way. It's what works for me with the particular snakes I work with. Cheers!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
you believe will but not me...
ahahahahahahahaaahahaaahahahahahaaaaahahahahahaaa
me and will are on the same page SAYING the EXACT same thing!
to funny
,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Ive been agreeing this whole time genius! But I don't agree that it is somehow harmfull to the snakes. To keep them as Brian does. If I can do it why can'y you, lol? Did you see all the baby snakes Brian produced? Someone needs to call the Humane Society on him, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
>>>If I can do it why can'y you, lol?
haha i did 20years ago... i learned... the snakes taught me.
,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
>>>>>If I can do it why can'y you, lol?
>>
>>haha i did 20years ago... i learned... the snakes taught me.
>>,,,,,,,thomas davis
>>-----
>>Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
>>
>>my website www.barmollysplace.com
C'mon share some of that good stuff, lol.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
Hi Jorge,
I wasn't trying to bust your chops, just report on problems that I have seen with that method. It can certainly work if you make those accomodations that you mentioned, they just didn't have the experience to do so. No offense intended.
Will
Will, it's always a pleasure to hear from you! You know how to get your point across without offending, thanks!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra
My Site > www.Sierrasnakes.com
This has been what I have been doing while using full heating. I keep the daytime temp at 80-83 degrees during the day and drop it at night. I would think that as long as there is some temp variation, the snakes will thrive and be healthy.
-Wade
>>This has been what I have been doing while using full heating. I keep the daytime temp at 80-83 degrees during the day and drop it at night. I would think that as long as there is some temp variation, the snakes will thrive and be healthy.
>>
>>-Wade
Some don't consider that thriving.....I've seen the difference between being kept alive and allowing to thrive......just my personal observation and assumption.....
What are those lower night time temps?
Don't your kings eat at night and then wait for the heat of the day to digest?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
As of right now, I've been dropping the temps at night to around 78 degrees. I feed my kings during the day, when its warm, and on the night after being fed I don't drop the temps quite as low, to help digestion. This is my current system, but I'm still fine tuning.
I greatly appreciate all the comments and tips. I will point out that one reason why I have switched to this heating method is because I currently don't have a working thermostat. I don't feel comfortable using heat cable or flexwatt without one. So this full room heating will probably be just temporary until I can get my hands on a Helix or Herpstat. Still, I was interested in what you guys thought about it.
-Wade
I think any drop is better than none.
I keep using this example here, sorry if you have read it again and again... I know a guy who kept a Cal king for 22 yrs on his porch in a glass tank. The snake was protected from direct sun but otherwise exposed to day/night natural temps, except during heat waves when it was brought into the house. That is a nice ripe age for any Cal king. So a wide temp range certainly didn't cause it harm.
I challenge anyone to keep a Cal king for 22 yrs in a sweaterbox or cage indoors. I know that is but one example, but I still think it is worthy of consideration.
>>I challenge anyone to keep a Cal king for 22 yrs in a sweaterbox or cage indoors. I know that is but one example, but I still think it is worthy of consideration.
I have a Ruthveni of Shannon Brown's that has been kept in a sweater box or an Applegate enclosure for 28 of his 30 years...He was wild caught in 1983 in Amealco, Mexico by Lloyd Lemke........He's in brumation now and will be hooked up with a mate again by March or so......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
I think the key here is wild-caught. Of the oldest snakes I know of by local folks near me, all were wild-caughts, and either adult or subadult when caught. For example, rosyboas captured as adults and kept in captivity for 23 yrs. That means those snakes could be at least 25 yrs old and probably are older. And offspring from those adults (born in captivity) have not lived for more than about 15 yrs in the same snake room and exact same conditions as those adults.
Anyway, I guess my point was that a wide temp range certainly did not hurt that Cal king.
" Some don't consider that thriving.....I've seen the difference between being kept alive and allowing to thrive......just my personal observation and assumption....."
Now now John...don't fall into the trap like others have on this forum about speaking about things that go on in others collections without actually knowing firsthand.
I say that because you are stating a judgemental blanket statement, that you yourself, called an assumption. Assuming, your word, that they are only just being kept alive due to heating a room, is not being open minded that others may not do the things the exact same way, but still, have great results.
You are stating that they are not thriving. How do you know this? There is simply no way for you to know, without knowing firsthand.
Depending on species, heating a room may work out really well for some, for some other species, it may not. I know some who have successfully kept and bred corns for years in 70 degree rooms. I also know breeders, like I stated in another post, that have hatched more snakes than anyone here on this forum, using room heating, and not heat tape/gradients. I myself had excellent results with breeding using a heated room. There are many factors for success in the grand scheme of things when it comes to successfully keep and breed snakes, and heating is just ONE factor. Whether or not someone heats a room, or uses a gradient, things can and will happen. I know of lack of success as well using gradients. Point being, more to it than just the debate over a heat source.
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Genesis 1:1
Plenty of disclaimers in my post that does not support your reply Billy.....
I'm in no proverbial trap......I have my own opinions like everyone else here and not here......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
No worries mate. Just commenting on your assumption.
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Genesis 1:1
>>No worries mate. Just commenting on your assumption.
No worries on this end either...
Most of what we all post here are our own assumptions......
If snakes could actually speak then it would be their assumptions as well......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Is some of that speacial cool aid. Then they will talk to you.
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
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perfect pic sums it all up pretty well.
,,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
I understand now.
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Gerard
"Faith, of the unknown one, the deliverer. Wait, something must be done, for hundred years."
Hey John,
Check out my new signature quote for this week!
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"Some don't consider that thriving.....I've seen the difference between being kept alive and allowing to thrive'
JLassiter
...Amen John!
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Awww. I feel special now......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
There is no way I could ever heat my cabin into the 80's F 24/7. In the winter it gets into the high 70's F during the day and drops into the mid 40's at night. The snakes that are not brumating have hot spots kept in the 90's F 24/7. If they want they can move away from the hot spot.
I usually find my baby bulls in a bunch over the hot spot.
The hot spot is under the saucers; the kings like the hot spot, too. A box covers the hotspots to hold the heat in.
But everybody likes to also have a cool hide.
In the summer I turn the heaters down, as summer nights are generally in the 60's F, with sometime heat waves into the 100's F in the late afternoon! I have lost no animals due to these natural heat fluctuations. I just have montane kings and pituophis, no tropical species that would probably need a heated room 24/7.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
You live in that cabin in the seirra foothills? If so, that is AWESOME!
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"Some don't consider that thriving.....I've seen the difference between being kept alive and allowing to thrive'
JLassiter
...Amen John!
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For all that snow....
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Gerard
Snakes do thousands of different things, picking a couple to give them doesn't mean your animals are thriving. They are still just being kept alive, so stop crying.
Last winter just about did me in what with all the damn snow. This year it has been the opposite, dry and warm, as though the weather gods took pity upon me...
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
It has been a mild winter. That means crazy amounts of eggs. My break is almost over.
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Gerard
"Destruction of the empty spaces, is my one and only crime."
I envy you, looking forward to eggs! I am out of room for any more babies so have to prevent eggs this year.
Will miss this...
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
It is common sense thast snakes know what temps to PICK. I have been keeping snakes in a cold room (during winter) where they sit on the cold side (40-50F) and they will eat at those temps IF there is a hot spot on the other end. What they do is move over to the hot end to digest. After digesting they move over to the cold side again (probably to conserve calories).
This thermoregulation also has them brumate and cycle for breeding ALL BY THEMSELVES ..GEE WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED THAT SNAKES KNOW BETTER HOW TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES, THAN WE DO?
How do they ever survive in the wild with BHB brian barzyck method is beyond me!
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