Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well since the GB forum is totally dead I figured I would post these over here. These are my Coffey line aberrants. The first 2 are my 1.1 hets and the next two are female aberrants.

Male

Female

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Those are really nice. I would really like to get a anery. There are so many cool alterna I learned about last year.
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Gerard

"The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad."

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

You are not the only one, I been trying to get an anery and also a hypo to go with those aberrant. I guess no one is producing them to satisfy demand here in the states. I have seen them for sale over the pond, and that might be where I may have to get them.
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GB's are such incredible looking animals. Those are super nice! I have several locale pair myself.

Joe

Yes they are, I have always liked them myself but to be truthfully honest they rank lower than my knoblochi collection. There are some really nice locales too. Which locales do you have? Post some pics would like to see them.

Thanks again!
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I have a pair of black gaps, west sandersons, and hwy 277's. I also have a nine mile male waiting for a girl. I like em all, but only have room for so much in my snake room. We all have to choose are favorites and go with it!! LOL

Isn't that the truth, I am sure we all have let animals go to others and years later wish we had them back. Sounds like you have some nice animals.
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Very nice. I think I'm going to have to pick up a few more GB's this year.

Thanks! I am looking for just a few more GB's and of course they are hard to come by. Good Luck, post some pics when you pick them up.
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Going to post a photo of my female 9mile soon. She's in blue and I'm impatiently waiting for her to shed.

Very interesting! Are they really that yellow? I am used to seeing orange and gray, never saw yellow and gray before.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Do you see them all as yellow? I see mostly orange.
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These look sort of orange yellow, whereas usually they look reddish orange. Maybe it is the camera lighting.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

No they are on the light orange side of the spectrum. I was just picturing "Straw Yellow" as a brighter yellow or dirty blonde.
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Those hets are amazing! I used to have a Pandale Dirt rd locality male that looked similar in pattern.
Alterna are the elite in kings, IMO.

Now I want more..haha!
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Genesis 1:1

Thanks, I actually like the male het better than the rest, too. Just because of the way the head and neck pattern are.Great little creatures.
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Yeah, it's funny how some of the snobs over there wouldn't even acknowledge those unique looking alterna you have Jimmy. No doubt envious of those smokers!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah, it's funny how some of the snobs over there wouldn't even acknowledge those unique looking alterna you have Jimmy

That's funny you said that. I did post one of those aberrant females over there one time. Then like the next post was about how "Cappuccino" GBK people don't respect the species or some thing along that line. I could understand if it was a hybrid but they have been line bred for frickin years.

Alterna are great and micro locality is cool too if that's what you're into but don't say a L.alterna x L.alterna isn't pure. I know Jason from Envy has some kick butt long blotched and no one would comment on that picture. Craziness over there. I wonder how they felt with the amel alterna in the classifieds a while ago.

Thanks Doug for the kind words.

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" I wonder how they felt with the amel alterna in the classifieds a while ago?"

I think they actually put a "hit" contract out on him..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Kinda like this. LOL
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.....yep!, end of amel "alterna" propagation for him..LOL!

HAHA!!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

that forum is dead. It's more like a private club really.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

>>that forum is dead. It's more like a private club really.

Yep it is and has been that way since before the internet.....those alterna heads are kinda what got this whole thing going though....at least for us Texans.....I guess we are just stuck up like that.....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

those are very cool indeed! and yes, post those as often as you like on this forum...Dave.

Thanks Dave. I will probably do another set of photo's with them in the fall. Hopefully they will breed in 2013.
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Nice....I can't help but think that those had to be derived from some Black Gap animals and possibly another locale or generics...

I wonder if Mr. Coffey bred bright blairs phase alterna into highly speckled alterna... These Coffey animals seem to be speckled blairs phase while most of the other speckled alterna are alterna phase....

Anyway.....Killer generic alterna.......I wouldn't mind having a pair when you produce them...I would also like to see if they really prove out to be simple recessive.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I wonder if Mr. Coffey bred bright blairs phase alterna into highly speckled alterna... These Coffey animals seem to be speckled blairs phase while most of the other speckled alterna are alterna phase....

You know this line is highly variable in patterns. It could have popped up from a long blotch project too. The one Mike R. posted a while back had a zig zag pattern vs. the look I have.

There is a possibility but from what I understand is that it is a simple recessive. I don't have proof until hopefully next year, maybe someone else may chime in that has bred them.

6 months old

18 months old

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oh. my. god.

I'm not sure which I like more but both sets are killers. If I ever do alterna, it'd be one of those.

FWIW, I think the micro-locality stuff has hurt grey bands as popular pets. Which is a shame because they're neat snakes.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

They are really looking good man. Here's that pair of Granites, that John doesn't like to call granites, I recently got. Oh and I got a killer female to pair up with my blue line male too!

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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

Lol...nice speckled alterna.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>Lol...nice speckled alterna.......
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>>John Lassiter

That was fast John, I just posted it, lol. Thanks bro!
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

John and I had this discussion a while back. Those granites are a hit or miss type thing. You never know what your going to get. I think Brandon chimed in with the discussion too. I will try and find it. I also talked to John from Suncoast who originally produced them. He said that you never know what your going to get. Breed a visual granite to a visual granite and get normal babies. Breed to Normals from that line and get granites. Just to unpredictable as far as I can see. The same may go with the Coffey line but people have said that his abberants are simple recessive. I will hopefully be able to prove that next year.

Those are some really nice "Granite"alterna, I will grant you that. Hopefully you can continue to work with them to really see how that gene comes about(recessive,co-dom,etc...). Looking forward to hearing how it goes. I may also like to try and put it into the Coffey line one day to see how the genes react to each other. Damn! How could you not love this hobby.
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>>John and I had this discussion a while back. Those granites are a hit or miss type thing. You never know what your going to get. I think Brandon chimed in with the discussion too. I will try and find it. I also talked to John from Suncoast who originally produced them. He said that you never know what your going to get. Breed a visual granite to a visual granite and get normal babies. Breed to Normals from that line and get granites. Just to unpredictable as far as I can see. The same may go with the Coffey line but people have said that his abberants are simple recessive. I will hopefully be able to prove that next year.
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>>Those are some really nice "Granite"alterna, I will grant you that. Hopefully you can continue to work with them to really see how that gene comes about(recessive,co-dom,etc...). Looking forward to hearing how it goes. I may also like to try and put it into the Coffey line one day to see how the genes react to each other. Damn! How could you not love this hobby.
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I agree with all that but I see no reason to call them granites.......LOL
A Granite is a Mex Mex line bred mutation....Speckled alterna occur naturally in Black Gap, Lajitas, River Road and other locales......They've been around for decades (for ever really) and no one called them granites until the granite Mex Mex came on the scene in the late 90s and early 2000s......To me they are just speckled alterna and always have been....

And everyone will see that with all mexicana (including alterna) things aren't very predictable at all.....but line breeding can accomplish a lot.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Here's one of my speckled alterna....Black Gap locale...

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

And a true granite.....Mex Mex......lol







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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

When are you going to stop hoarding those granites and let some of us enjoy them? Tired of looking at the computer screen and just hoping to have one. LOL
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>>When are you going to stop hoarding those granites and let some of us enjoy them? Tired of looking at the computer screen and just hoping to have one. LOL
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You'll produce some next year......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Oh yea, Boy I am losing my brain forgot I had some from the granite line....Well maybe next year.... The older ones I got from you are just plain Jane right? I have it saved in email, I guess I could look it up.
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>>Oh yea, Boy I am losing my brain forgot I had some from the granite line....Well maybe next year.... The older ones I got from you are just plain Jane right? I have it saved in email, I guess I could look it up.
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You got some black Lemke line (1.1) and that granite line pair produced by Bob Hansen's ultra granite adults is all I remember....LOL

What else did you get?.....I'm getting old....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

That's it. No more until hypo E come available. Then I may add another pair or so.
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>>That's it. No more until hypo E come available. Then I may add another pair or so.
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How about a black hypo-e or an ultra granite Hypo-e?
Nevermind...You know when I produce those I wouldn't sell them....lmao!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Sure you would for a nine digit number!
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>>Sure you would for a nine digit number!
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Why not?....BP guys do for a lot less snake...Maybe 6 digits..LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Very nice John! I didn't know you had some of those.
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>>Very nice John! I didn't know you had some of those.
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Some what?
Speckled Black Gaps......They've been around for years.....LOL
Check out Dan Johnson's website.....
Here's one of Dan's.....Wild Caught in 1993....

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I probably have been through that site a thousand times. The greatest alterna site I have ever seen. If that snake had some aberrant orange on its dorsal it would almost look like my Coffey line aberrant.
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>>I probably have been through that site a thousand times. The greatest alterna site I have ever seen. If that snake had some aberrant orange on its dorsal it would almost look like my Coffey line aberrant.
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And that is what I was getting at....Dan bred this "patternless" male to his best blairs from Black Gap and got some normal looking offspring. I wonder if those got out and now we are seeing the blairs influence in the speckleds....Like in the Coffey line and those other "granites."

Or someone else bred nice blairs into the speckleds and got some speckled blairs instead of the normals speckeld alterna phase.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Huge possibility, and to be truthfully honest I hope some people go back to line breeding ssp. Some really neat stuff pops out of it. I think Coffey has been working with his line for 20 plus years if I remember correctly. The case being though, if the Coffey line aberrants are recessive wouldn't it have to start out as recessive? And for the granites if it was a line bred trait it would have the irregular out comes like they do.
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>>Huge possibility, and to be truthfully honest I hope some people go back to line breeding ssp. Some really neat stuff pops out of it. I think Coffey has been working with his line for 20 plus years if I remember correctly. The case being though, if the Coffey line aberrants are recessive wouldn't it have to start out as recessive? And for the granites if it was a line bred trait it would have the irregular out comes like they do.
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If line bred enough a trait will act like a recessive, but there will certainly be some inbetweeners pop up...kinda like when you outcross and go backwards in a line breeding project....

As I stated somewhere here....everyone will find out how variable mexicana (alterna included) really are.....Things will "pop up" unexpectedly, unpredictably all the time.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

What I wish is that folks would have paid closer attention to lineage/locality......Then they'd know what they have other than just generic alterna....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

What's wrong with generic alterna? River Road x Black Gap is considered generic, but undoubtedly still L.alterna. I see nothing wrong with that at all. If those offspring produce a weird trait that is then line bred to make it more pronounced is it not supposed to be called an alterna?
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>>What's wrong with generic alterna? River Road x Black Gap is considered generic, but undoubtedly still L.alterna. I see nothing wrong with that at all. If those offspring produce a weird trait that is then line bred to make it more pronounced is it not supposed to be called an alterna?
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Nothing is wrong with generic at all.......
But if their data was retained we wouldn't even be having this conversation......that is all.....

BTW...I want some of those generic Coffey lines when you produce them...so there, nothing is wrong with them in my opinion....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Let me ask you this, what trait do we have in the hobby that started off as line bred and is now acting like a recessive trait?
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>>Let me ask you this, what trait do we have in the hobby that started off as line bred and is now acting like a recessive trait?
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MANY boa and BP genes....LOL

Many Floridana looks that have names......Sulfurs come to mind....

Many "hypo" animals aren't even hypo in my opinion....but when line bred they seem to get better looking....

Black Phase Mex Mex are naturally occurring line bred animals.....Granites will eventually become predictable as well as striped ruthveni.......I don't know if they will be "recessive" though, but many many genes are recessive. Look at thayeri many offspring take on the look of their grandparents.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

You are correct that speckled alterna have been around but what about nature line breeding for that pattern over eons?

Speckled, granite, doesn't matter to me it is just used as a descriptive adjective to the pattern on the snake. You can actually confuse the hobby even more and come up with a line called Mottled Mex Mex. Mottled still being used as a descriptive adjective and paints a nice picture in the brain of what kind of pattern the snake has vs. the normal phenotype.

I just think your mad that some one is trying to steal the name granite from your mex mex. Lmao!
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>>I just think your mad that some one is trying to steal the name granite from your mex mex. Lmao!

No...I find it funny that someone finally gave them the same name we gave the granite mex mex even though those speckled alterna have been around forever. They were give the speckled label when they were found......that's it.....
I will never call them granite alterna......nor ultra granite.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

All about sales I would imagine. If Granite mex mex are hot why not call some speckled alterna's granite and the should sell like hot cakes. Right? IMO

Just busting your chops John!
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>>All about sales I would imagine. If Granite mex mex are hot why not call some speckled alterna's granite and the should sell like hot cakes. Right? IMO
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>>Just busting your chops John!

LOL....whatever....heheheheahahahahahahaaha
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...