Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone! I just wanted to share some pics of what I have decided is a new morph. I have spoke with several of the well known breeders in the industry, and so far, nobody has much of an idea of what this snake is. Suggestions have been...orange ghost, ultramel, crider albino, caramel, etc...I have held this snake up to several of these morphs, and the difference is night and day. I'm not here to make waves or upset people by claiming this is a new morph, but I have done my research and have bred the snakes out. This new Morph, the Monarch Ball is simple recessive. I have posted pics on here before, of the first clutch that I produced, and also the second. If you have any ideas, comments, or can point me in any direction, please do.

Here is the Monarch story......I purchased two very ugly pastel from my step-sisters boyfriends friend back in late 1999. The snakes barely ate over the course of 10 years, but finally came around in 2009. I bred the two pastel together and produced what I am now calling a pastel monarch, and a pastel monarch genetic stripe. There were only two good eggs in the clutch. The babies were very strange and certainly did not look like pastels, or even supers, which is what I expected. One baby looked like a genetic stripe, but very light in color, while the other baby was just amazing….neither had any black. Their colors where orange yellow and the black, or lack thereof, was a deep purple color. It seemed as though the ugly pastels were double hets......het for the new gene, Monarch, and also Genetic Stripe. How crazy is that! The following year, 2011, I got a 7 egg clutch…..the babies were 2 super pastels, 1 genetic stripe, 1 pastel genetic stripe, 1 super pastel genetic stripe, 1 Monarch, and 1 Monarch Stripe!! This clutch gave me the snake expressing the single Monarch gene. Plus, the other babies will be either 66% poss het for Monarch, or Genetic Stripe. I have since bred the original Pastel Monarch to a normal, a het albino, and a Pastel. All clutches are healthy and I now have a great start on 100% het Monarch. I still need to prove if the Pastel Monarch is het for Genetic Stripe

Please enjoy the pics and I will be happy to answer ANY questions you might have!

First pic is the very first babies I produced from the ugly pastels. I now know that they are a Pastel Monarch, and Pastel Monarch Genetic Stripe. The other two pics show the same snakes two years later. I'm not the best at this computer stuff, but I will post more pics,especially of the single gene Monarch.

Thanks, Rance

Ok, here is a pic of the second clutch from the Ugly pastels. As you can see, there is a Monarch, 2 super pastel, 1 Monarch Genetic Stripe, 1 Genetic Stripe, 1 Pastel Genetic Stripe, and 1 Super Pastel Genetic Stripe.

I dont' know what order these pics come up, but one pics show three snakes together, which are upper left Monarch Genetic Stripe, upper right is the Monarch, and bottom snake in the pic is a Super Pastel Genetic Stripe 66% poss het for Monarch.

Last pic is a another picture of the Monarch

Here are three more pics.

One has a Genetic Stripe baby next to its sibling Monarch Genetic Stripe....look how much the Monarch Gene changed the normal color!

Other pic has the Monarch next to the sibling Monarch Genetic Stripe

Other pic will be the Monarch lying on top of his older Pastel Monarch brother

ugly pastel parents

Here are the pics of the original parents that I bought back in 1999. I'm not trying to hide how I produced them....I want everyone to know. If you have any questions, just ask!

Cool stuff, Rance.
Nothing wrong with hatching some new for the rest of us to marvel at. I hope you get all of the answers you're looking for with this project and I look forward to seeing it develop.
Thank you for sharing this with us.
Cheers!
John
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John Woolard Reptiles

Congrats on your project! They look amazing LOVE the colors.
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Cheers,
Jessica Gibbs
Ball Pythons; Corn Snakes; Green Tree Python; Jungle Carpet Python; Bci; Bcl; Bco
www.supercoilconstrictors.com
LEARNING PREVENTS IGNORANCE OF THAT WHICH SURROUNDS YOU...AS LONG AS THE SOURCE FROM WHICH YOU LEARN IS A VALID ONE.

Nice, a new base morph and some combos for the book.

Pretty, pretty..... looks so caramel albino in the pastel combo!

Kevin
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the positive comments. This project has been crazy since the first clutch I hatched, especially since I was only expecting normals, pastels, and super pastels. Now I just have to figure out what route to take. Do I sit on the snakes for another year or two and breed it to other morphs, or do I let some hets go? It's nice to share this project with others, and see what ideas everyone has. I simply do not know where this Monarch gene came from. Exciting stuff!

Kevin, I'd love to have this new morph listed in a book. Let me know if I can help with anything!

Wow! That 2 year old pastel monarch is sweet!
Not only a new morph but one that gets better with age...congrats!
John

gorgous snakes rance - big congrats!

> ... This new Morph, the Monarch Ball is simple recessive. ...
>
>... I have since bred the original Pastel Monarch to a normal, a het albino, and a Pastel. All clutches are healthy and I now have a great start on 100% het Monarch. ...

Sorry to rain on the parade, but there is insufficient data to prove that monarch is a recessive gene. If all of the pastel monarch x normal (and het albino) look normal and if some of those normal looking babies are mated together and produce monarchs, then you can say it's a recessive mutant.

Otherwise, the snakes in the photos are beauties. I look forward to learning the results of those egg clutches. Best of luck with the project.

Paul Hollander

Paul,

You have not rained on my parade. I welcome any, and all comments on the snakes I'm working with. However, I'm still confident that this is a simple recessive gene. I do understand what you are saying about breeding two of the normal looking babies together, that I say are 100% hets, and which I will do.

I have bred the original ugly pastel parents together two years in a row, and produced a Pastel Monarch, a Pastel Monarch Genetic Stripe, a Monarch, and a Monarch Genetic Stripe....wouldn't this lead one to believe that the parents are themselves in fact 100% hets, especially since they are not expressing anything other than pastel. Two years in a row they have produced Monarchs and Genetic Stripes, which makes them double hets. In all probability, it's not a dom, or co-dom gene, or the origianl parents would probably be expressing something besides pastel.

Then, I took the first baby, which is a Pastel Monarch and bred it to a normal.....results were, normals and pastels. Once again, the results are typical of a recessive gene.

Then, I bred this Pastel Monarch to a het albino, and the results were....normals, and pastels. Once again, this gene behaved like a simple recessive. Which would also make the babies 50% poss het for albino.

Then, I bred the same Pastel Monarch to Pastel, and the results were...normals, pastels, and super pastels. Once again, the gene behaved like we would expect a recessive gene to.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but this Monarch gene has so far behaved like I would expect it to. I will be breeding either the Pastel Monarch or the Monarch Genetic Stripe back to the original female this year. At least for me, there is little doubt as to what the offspring will be...I'm certain there will be Monarchs.

I don't feel like I have to breed two normal babies 100% het for Monarch together to say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is simple recessive gene.....because if I breed the Pastel Monarch, and the original female pastel together, then in essence, that is what I'm doing.

Once again Paul, thanks for the comments, they are always welcome.

Paul,

I re-read your post again, and my initial comment. I'm not sure I made it clear in the original post a few days ago, that all three clutches from the Pastel Monarch have already hatched.

Can you send me an email

info@newenglandrpetile.com

Thanks - -Kevin
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Kevin,

I tried to send you an email at the address you provided, but it was returned. Is there another email address?

Are you planning on letting any of these go or any possible hets go?

At least for now, I don't have plans to sell any animals. That could change, but I feel like it's just a little early to do so. Thanks, Rance