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Maybe not speckled?

Aaron Feb 28, 2012 01:00 AM

I think there are speckled alterna that are just naturally speckled and then there are ones that are resulting from some sort of genetic aberration. I think that D. Johnson specimen you posted is of the genetic aberration type.

The genetic aberration appears to be inheritable though not in a simple recessive fashion. A new thing I have thought of is that the genetic aberration doesn't really increase the speckling much, if at all. Rather it erases and/or disrupts the pattern on the dorsal surface. The reason it appears to increase the speckling may be because the first specimen was a naturally speckled alterna phase in the first place. When it reproduced it passed on the mutation as well a a tendency for speckling.

In 2010 I produced an alterna phase specimen that has no speckling but it does have sections of the dorsal surface that are patternless, ie the black bands are present on the sides but not on the top. It's just one specimen so it doesn't prove anything. It may not even be a mutated specimen, it might just be an odd looking normal because the mother was a genetic patternless/speckled/whatever mutation produced by D. Johnson but the father was a normal patterned specimen.

I am hoping to find out more by breeding the mutation with non-speckled Blair's and alterna phases.
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Replies (7)

Aaron Feb 28, 2012 01:02 AM

I don't know how this ended up at the top, it was supposed to be a reply to a post in the speckled mex mex thread below. Sorry 'bout that.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

Jlassiter Feb 28, 2012 01:09 AM

Great insight Aaron.
Maybe there are naturally occurring speckled animals and then there are genetic aberrant animals different from those those that are naturally occurring. I have noticed that Dan used the terms patternless or speckled throughout his career.

I still think they shouldn't be called granite though....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Aaron Feb 28, 2012 02:01 PM

I agree they shouldn't be called granite too. Guess I forgot to mention that. Dan called ones that were fully speckled or completely washed out head to tail Patternless. If they had traces of pattern he called them speckled but it was the same mutation. I think we should stick with those terms, Patternless and Speckled, at least until we figure out the mechanism. We may end up calling them Patternless, for the ones that have traces of pattern, and Super Patternless for the ones with no pattern.
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www.hcu-tx.org/

KcTrader Feb 28, 2012 06:39 PM

Looking at the two examples posted, I would have to agree that Patternless and Granite seem to fit the look.


Courtesy of John Lassiter


From Dan Johnson's website
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a153fish Mar 01, 2012 04:36 PM

I'm not overly concerned about the name. It's just a discriptive label. The ones I have , were line bred by Suncoast as "Granites" so that is what I call them, so as to identify them as the line from Suncoast, nothing more.
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King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
Jorge Sierra

Jlassiter Mar 01, 2012 05:12 PM

>>I'm not overly concerned about the name. It's just a discriptive label. The ones I have , were line bred by Suncoast as "Granites" so that is what I call them, so as to identify them as the line from Suncoast

Cool that...
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

KcTrader Feb 28, 2012 06:14 PM

Another possibility, thanks Aaron. Do you have a pic of the alterna phase offspring?
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