Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A few days ago we adopted an 8-9 year old desert kingsnake. He was hatched with a pretty bad kink in his spine, his original owners were told that he would "grow out of it" by the pet store and when he didn't, they didn't want him anymore . A friend of a friend of mine took him in and has had him for about 7 years although she said she hasn't held him in about 5 years. She asked me if I would take him about a month ago and I said yes. Then she contacted me and told me that he had been biting himself! I asked her how much she was feeding him and she said one jumbo mouse every two weeks. I told her that he was probably not getting enough food and to feed him more. So she started to give him one mouse every week. We got him on saturday(3 days ago) and he had eaten a large mouse that day. After he defecated we took him out to hold him and he immediately started biting himself in my fiances hands! So he quickly put him back in his aquarium and I shot this footage with my phone.

In the video he is only really going after his tail but he was attacking any part of his body he could reach. Do you guys think he is doing it because he is still hungry or do you think it is a pain response? You can see the kink in his back, it's about 1/3rd of the way down his body, is this something that could be causing him pain and the only way he can deal with it is biting himself? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I also wanted to add, this is my first post under this name, years ago I was a very active member here though, it's good to be back

Can you NOT plainly see that the snake is EXTREMELY thin and underweight??..........it's HUNGRYYYY!!!, and has been severely neglected for a LONG, LONG time in the other person's care that also owned it previously.

Also, can't see it too well because of the very low light conditions, but it looks to be a splendida cross,..either a splendida x floridana, or a splendida x holbrooki. Looks more splendida x floridana from what I can make out.

Anyway, the animal has been starved, and it desperately wants to be fed.......simple as that.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

probably a natural intergrade splendida x holbrooki though after looking at it again.

But anyway.......the thing needs to be fed!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Here are some better pictures without the red lamp on. These were taken 3 days ago, the day we got him.

He's actually more yellow than white, the color is a bit off now that I look at them on the computer screen.

Is that the kink you described earlier that I am looking at?. If so, I would definitely say the snake is suffering big-time too!

The photo's are extremely poor quality, so I am not even sure what I am looking at there to be honest, but if that is the spinal deformity/kink I am seeing there, I would seriously put the poor snake out of it's misery PRONTO!. That looks EXTREMELY serious!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

I just looked at the video again, and the snakes back looks to be completely BROKEN! The snake has to be suffering beyond belief, and I would euthanize it without a second thought ASAP!. Allowing it to live is just pure torture, and no animal should have to endure that whatsoever. This may seem very callus and blunt, but the animal's suffering is THE most important thing to address here, nothing else.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yes that is the kink in his spine, do you really think it is that bad? He has had it since he was hatched and he is about 9 years old and eats every time he is offered food. In my experience, snakes that are sick or injured usually refuse feedings until the condition is treated.

Yes, that is the worst I have ever seen to be honest. The will and instinct to survive can be downright amazing, but I just can't imagine that the snake is not suffering profoundly in that condition. It actually looked to be broken (severed) in the video, and is probably all screwed up from years of it's body trying to mend itself back together to no real avail.

I seriously wouldn't be able to let it go on living like that in good conscious.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Yeah, its the worst I've seen too. I bet the older that snake gets, the tougher it is to deal with its condition. I would also recommend putting it down. Its sad to see things like this. What's even worse is the stupid pet shop selling it and saying it would out grow it. It should have been put down by the breeder as soon as it hatched.
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I couldn't agree more about that, Ross. I would have done it immediately too.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

any of mine hatch that way and they'll be killed and fed to a cribo. Yikes.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

I've seen snakes with some pretty bad birth defects and injuries that were still alive over the years but I would agree with Doug on yours.
As severe as it is I would put it down too. Looking at that snake makes my back hurt.
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Randy Whittington

Ummm, I am not going to agree with my fellow formites.

If it is able to pass food through that area (and it seems like it has for a long time) it will be okay. Nature has a way of finding a way.

But do feed it more often and as much as it will eat. Also use a undertank heat pad. Overhead lighting and or heat will dehydrate a king. They need himidity. So I would suggest a tupperware box with orchid moss and cut a hole on the side. The heat pad will allow the snake to thermoregulate itself. Which will allow it to conserve calories when hungry and digest when it has a food bolus.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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I agree. Since it was that way from a hatchling I doubt there is pain as it isn't an injury....who knows. I would keep it alive and feed it a little more.

I AGREE WITH RAINER ! ! ! ! !

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Well common sense rules.

I emailed the Op and she sent me better pics of the kink. It does not look anywhere near as bad as the ones posted here. the snake has been eating full grown jumbo mice in the opast and has no problem passing them.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Gerard

"The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad."

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

That's what I originally thought, I've always fed my adult kings and corns 2-4 mice, once a week depending on their size, according to the old owner, she was giving him one mouse every other week, I told her to feed him more and more often and she took half of my advice and upped it to 1 mouse once a week. I just wanted to ask opinions because I have taken in underweight snakes before and I still never had one bite at itself.

Yep...it's hungry and is more splendida than holbrooki....Looks like the ones you can find right here in Nueces County, Texas.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

wow! that poor snake is in bad shape.

it's obviously hungry and under weight... the friend of a friend is an idiot and i hope she doesnt own any other pets.

that kink is very bad too... personally i would have put it down right after hatching if it looked like that as a hatchling. its hard to say if the snake should be put down now though... i'd say give it 2 small mice every 4 days for a month and see if the behavior improves. in the mean time watch it's movent closely and if it seems to be hampered by the spine problem at all, please put it down.

If you put it down, most will tell you to simply put it in a pillow case and then into the freezer... i've even done it myself in the past... but i've been hearing more and more lately that ice crystals can form in the brain causing severe pain before death. so a quick head chop with a hatchet may be the best option... yeah it's horrible and gross but you're basically going to make sure the snake feels no pain.

As this snake ages arthritis is very likely to develop in the bad kink, or old break that never healed right. The poor thing! It is encouraging that he has a good appetite, and can eat and defecate okay. If he is fed up properly and quits with the self biting he may be okay to go on living; a special needs pet for sure. If he bites at himself after getting proper amount of food then he is in pain and should be released from his agony.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Not sure how you guys come to the conclusion that the snake is in pain or compromised. It grew from hatchling to adult with the kink. The kink is kid of like scar tissue on the vertebrae. If the snake can eat and grow, it is OK.

A better way, perhaps, to kill a snake - refridgerate to about 50 deg, then chop off head. This way the snake isn't feeling much. I'm going to ask this question on the general forum, as there is a vet that sometimes chimes in there.

I used to breed Cal kings, and I have seen this behavior a few times early on with my snakes, before I fed them more.

Getula get hungry, and they are kind of stupid sometimes as to what is food. One of my males tried to eat a rope, and another one tried to mate with a broom handle (nothing to do with food but shows that they do not always think things through very well). The answer here is food. Kinks or not, he/she is hungry.

Here are the better pictures of his "kink"

I assumed it was because he was underfed but I've never had a "handicapped" snake before so I wanted to get some advice and try to rule that out. But yes, he did eat a jumbo mouse on saturday and defecated on sunday and I watched as he passed the mouse beyond the kink in his spine, it didn't seem to slow down his digestion process at all. I will definitely start feeding him more, like I said, I told this woman from the beginning that she wasn't feeding him enough, now that he is in our care I will be sure to satiate him. I would also like to try to switch him over to f/t, would it be a good time to try that since he is so hungry now? Or should I worry about putting weight on him and just keep giving him live? She told me that he was on pre killed mice when she got him but she didn't know that you could buy frozen mice and she "didn't have it in her" to kill them herself so she just always gave him live. If after I get him eating more and get him at a better weight he still keeps doing this then I will do whatever I can to figure out if he is in pain and if he is I will of course do the humane thing and have him euthanized. I don't think I will go with the freezer or the head chopping method, that's something I would rather leave up to the vet, luckily I have a pretty good herp/avian vet that I work with.

>try it now. you'd be amazed at how easy it *can* be and for a snake that's used tohunger likethat it shold be.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

I don't beleive the snake is in any pain. Just hungry as hell.

Sometimes when you put a snake in a box. Starve them. They do unusual things. Add the fact he has had a tough life from the get-go. But he/she IS a survivor. Enough of a survivor to try and eat anything that moves. Including his own tail! He deserves someone like you to take good care of him!

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www.Bluerosy.com

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I would think it would take frozen thawed with no problem and without it effecting it's appetite at all.
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Randy Whittington