Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently acquired a pair of baby DHL's. I did so on somewhat of an impulse buy (i've already slapped my self on the wrist for it) but none the less, i've kept several different herps before, all with a great degree of success. with these guys, the feeding debate is raging and interesting. i've read some people on the forum say that HLs can and have been raised w/o any ants at all. i've also read others imply that ants are the only acceptable food. i've already read most of what is posted on this forum on the topic, and i've already ordered a thousand ants, but i'm curious: WHY are the ants so cruicial? is it nutritional content? a specific protien absent in other insects? my babies (which are captive hatched) don't seem too picky about what they eat.

i realize i might stir up a little angst with this next comment, but have any of you tried fruitflies? i also keep poison frogs, who are also predominantly ant-eaters in the wild, but in captivity, they actually do better on dusted fruit flies. fruitflies are what i'm feeding mine until my ants arrive, and they take them quite greedily. it would be useful to find a substitute food source, because i feel that (except for their food issues) these animals make fantastic pets and should be more readily availible. personally, i would support experimentation with food sources in order to make HLs more captivity-friendly, and thus help them establish a captive population.

thanks-
-kyle
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Edited on December 20, 2003 at 19:38:59 by phwyvern.

OMG YES they absolutly HAVE to have ants. Some (very few) say you don't. HL's have been eating ants for hundreds of years... do not try and change that. They need ants a proper lighting. Just a fact. I dunno why this keep comes up, HLs = ants, plain and simple.

I may have posted my question a bit early... i just read the the link posted by cable re: Ecomorphology and HL feeding. it stated (1) that some HLs consume less than 10% ants, which is equivalent to that of other non-speciallist insectivores; and (2) that ant-specialist HLs display specialized feeding mechanisms for processing smaller, softer prey.

here are the conclusions i draw from the statements: because of (1) i conclude that, atleast for the genus in general, ants do not provide any speciallized nutrients. however, because of (2), such speciallists do require prey similar to ants in morphology and (perhaps) behavior. i may well, be wrong, but i am a curious person, so i am inclined to look for alternate solutions and answers. if you can tell me from experience that fruitflies do not work, or if you can demonstrate a good reason why this hypothesis is not worth testing, please do. but i am not inclined to believe that any fact is "plain and simple." such a belief smacks of the plain and simple-minded. sorry if i offend, but i am the type that requires explaination, not dictation.
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Edited on December 20, 2003 at 19:39:32 by phwyvern.

This has been gone over hundreds of times on this board, I posted the percentage of ants consumed by each species and scientific papers proving HLs have been kept and bred with only a small percentage of ants in the diet for years and years,one with none at all(success was limited).HLs eat a varied diet in wild conditions and have for "hundreds of years" this is "plain and simple". Of course ants are a part of that diet but the amount varies by species. I would recommend feeding ants in the diet because of stomach balance. The HL's stomach may have evolved so that the acid from ants keeps the bacteria balanced in the gut, although I haven't seen any proof of this, except personal observation it is just my speculation of why horned lizards benefit from ants. You will notice runny greenish stools if no ants are included in the diet.
1.Offer ants in the diet.
2.Include other insects as well(even mealworms,crickets and flies).
3.Make sure all prey items are no longer than the width of the HL's head.

Of coarse HL's eat other animals in the wild, but he sorta seems to think that HL's may not need them. And they absolutly do need them, with a variety of other foods, but ants are still very important.

My thought would be that other insects are a valid part of an HLs diet but wild caught insects probably have a much greater nutritive value than a tub full of crickets or mealworms raised on who knows what kind of food.

Hi Cable,
That certainly can be true. I usually feed my crickets and mealworms high protein and calcium dry babyfood cereal with fresh carrots and greens. Highly nutritious diets can indirectly be given to your HL in this manner. Make sure they are from a clean colony as well.

Thanks jeff
the bit about stomach balance etc seems like a good explaination, and is worth testing in some way, though i'm not exactly sure how. if you have any ideas about how this could be tested let me know. this is exactly the kind of analytical explaination i was looking for, even though it's only postulation.

again, thanks-
-kyle
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Edited on December 20, 2003 at 19:37:46 by phwyvern.