Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The simple fact is that unless those who want all snakes banned as pets get their way, hybrids are here to stay and there is no use arguing about it. Rather than trying to get people to stop breeding various snakes together, it seems to me we ought to be working on a unified snake registration system that would help people avoid buying snakes with genetic backgrounds they don’t want. If you want a true Oketee corn, for instance, and not just a corn that looks like one, the seller ought to be able to produce a pedigree that traces the snake’s origins back to wild-caught individuals. We also ought to agree as to what constitutes a purebred. I’m breeding corns together that were all caught in the county of my residence - 2 of them on my property - and I don’t intend to breed the females to any male originating from outside the county. From my perspective, a cross with an Oketee might make prettier babies but my line would no longer be purebred. On the other hand, the cattle producers have “purebred” beefalo and I don’t see we snake breeders can’t have the same kinds of “purebreds.”

I might mention one argument in favor of hybrids I don’t remember being mentioned. As we well know, no one is safe while the legislature is in session and laws are continually being passed that restrict our freedom to own snakes. I have a legal permit to keep my northern pine but I cannot get a permit for another one nor can I legally sell northern pines in my state. Other states have laws requiring permits or even outright prohibiting the ownership of any native snake. With hybrids, we can at least argue that they are domestic animals and should not be subject to laws regulating wildlife.

Bigfoot

as a no no. Anything that has a restricted species in it is also restricted. It does not matter if it is hybridized.

It sounds to me like we need to get heavily involved in politics here and see if we can get some these laws modified. I am all for protecting wild snake populations and for enacting laws that regulate but don't ban, potentially dangerous animals but I don't think the state ought to be in the business of preventing the domestication of new pet species.

Bigfoot

Problem is, to change the laws we need to work on a local level. The states of our USA all have different laws. To change laws such as reptiles or gun control ect we can only do something on a local level. So even if we ban together we cannot accomplish anything unless we become a sanctioned body such as the NRA (National Rifle Association) which has a lot of members that AGREE on certain issues on gun rights nationwide. WE as herpetoculturists will never AGREE and that is what will cause our govt to take away the freedoms we enjoy today.

We have so many special interest groups within our hobby that we will never be able to agree and put together any kind of offensive to protect our rights. Even if we could get some purist to set their inane laurels aside and they admit hybrids are just as okay as locality specific, pures, intergrades and includes hybrids in such groups. Then if we could ban together and perform the tasks needed IT WILL STILL NOT WORK. WHY?? Because there will always be a special group within OUR GROUP such as the drymarchon breeders (Indigos) who will take steps to make sure Indigos will not be hybridized under any circumstances or at any costs to our herp community at large. Hence the hate and arguing continues within our herp community and the lawmakers just continue to rule on any idoitic things that stems from tree hugger groups rattlesnake roundups and the like.

This forum is a good example where every two weeks another newb comes here and spouts off the 10 evils of hybrids and has not even considered the courtesy to see that they are interupting this forum which should be for the BREEDING & KEEPING and NOT arguing AGINST THOSE THINGS. Maybe these newbs that drift in and out are not bored but I sure the hell am. Why don't all the people who breed hybrids and post here just ignore these posts and (or) tell them to do a SEARCH as these discussions have been done into the ground?

SO here lies the problem. What we need is a good war where people feel insecure and the focus is off all these special groups all trying to make more laws for us to follow.

But instead of a good old fashion war what we have today is TERROR. More reasons to make more laws to take away more of our freedoms. Heck, we will soon not be able to transport (send, mail, freight) reptiles through legal means anyway. Then herpers who try these illegal methods will have serious consequenses in the near future.

But they are to busy coming here to argue why I should not breed a corn to a cal king. Bright group you all are!

Hey, enjoy em while you can and take lots of pictures!

My .02

Also, one of the exotic animal shows I go to actually says no hybrids allowed, but I still see hybrid birds and snakes around, and the owners don't do anything about it. I think that it is more of a "hey we're good guys, trying to keep it natural" plea than it is a rule, to get a wider acceptance in the breeder buyer communities.

There really isn't any reason why hybrids should be banned, as long as they're sold to their customers as hybrids and not some new, cool mutation or species for $100s or $1000s, and as long as the owners of those hybrids don't release them into a place where they could thrive and breed with local populations.

I didn't know that could you site the example and origin of the regulation?

I agree.