Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, I do not have full experience with all of these but I would like to know if anyone has had different results with the genetics of the following combinations. I may be wrong here but I would love to know it!

Super Stripe (Spector YB) x Normal - Does not reproduce itself, therefore all babies are either Spector/Whirlwinds or Yellow Belly

Highway (Gravel YB) - does not reproduce itself and all babies are either Gravels(Het Highway) or YB.

Crystal (Mojave Special) - Does not reproduce itself and all babies are either Mojaves or Specials.

Puma (Spark YB) - Does not reproduce itself and all babies are either Sparks or YB.

Kevin

Vanilla Cream (Fire Vanilla) - Does not reproduce itself and all babies are either Fires or Vanillas.
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That is the way I understood it. The Crystal I knew nothing about though. It makes them more elusive.

The Mystic Potion would fit on your list too, probably many others. It is a good thing though.

.......it's just like with a super form. Comparable with the super form leucistic (lesser/mojave or lesser/lesser...).
Regards
Jens

>>The Mystic Potion would fit on your list too, probably many others. It is a good thing though.

For sure!!!!!
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

and from what I just read and saw on facebook:

Highway x Superstripe = Highways & Superstripes.

Karl

Sense....

You can not make the double form of both on one snake since they act like supers.

Kevin

>>and from what I just read and saw on facebook:
>>
>>Highway x Superstripe = Highways & Superstripes.
>>
>>
>>Karl
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Is this in any relation to the PS and OGS?

Basically, you are talking about different alleles of the same genetic locus.

So it's not like combining pastel and spider where you run a dihybrid cross punnett square. A mystic potion would be a monohybrid cross with mystic as one allele and mojave as the other.

From what I understand, here are a few groups that are in the same gene locus:
1. Lesser, butter, mojave, mystic, crystal, hidden gene from HGW.
2. Spark, specter, gravel, YB.
3. Toffee, albino.
4. Candy, lavender.

I don't know if there has been an attempt or successful offspring with 3 of the alleles in the same locus (I.e. Lesser, Mystic, Crystal).

>>Basically, you are talking about different alleles of the same genetic locus.
>>
>>So it's not like combining pastel and spider where you run a dihybrid cross punnett square. A mystic potion would be a monohybrid cross with mystic as one allele and mojave as the other.
>>
>>From what I understand, here are a few groups that are in the same gene locus:
>>1. Lesser, butter, mojave, mystic, crystal, hidden gene from HGW.
>>2. Spark, specter, gravel, YB.
>>3. Toffee, albino.
>>4. Candy, lavender.
>>

Yep, same hotel just different floors.....

K
>>I don't know if there has been an attempt or successful offspring with 3 of the alleles in the same locus (I.e. Lesser, Mystic, Crystal).
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Good points here.

From the scientific point of view, it is not "normally" possible to have 3 alleles of the same genetic locus. What could happen is multiple polymorphisms in the same gene.

For example (and only hypothetical), you could have a two different possible genetic changes in the tyrosinase gene. Because of the fact that DNA makes RNA makes protein... and the 4 bases in DNA are AGTC.

If a "G" base at position 219 made a change in the tyrosinase protein that made it less efficient - you could get the toffee because it could still make a little bit of active tyrosinase protein to produce the pigment. On the other hand, if your have the normal A at site 219 but have a C at position 350 of the gene instead of a A, you could make only half of the tyrosinase protein that cannot make any of the pigment so you would get an albino that has stark white. Genetically, you could have both mutations in the same gene, but the the short protein would dominate and you get only white. However, a toffino with one partly good gene would appear toffee rather than white.

In the case of lesser/mojo/russo and the other BEL animals, they are likely to all be changes at different points in the pigmentation pathways so that they complement each other and produce slightly different colors depending on whether there are 1, 2, or 3 sites in the genes that are changed.

and you are mistaken about the "hidden gene" in the HGW. There is no hidden gene, it is a different mutation completely from the standard woma. Whether this was not known or was just initially advertised as "hidden gene" for marketing is completely a different story.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

not to mention toffee/candy are the same thing and are both compatible with albino NOT lavender.

there is no hidden gene in the hgw, and it is most definitely different from the platy gene that appears normal in phenotype, which i think is what you are referring to.

also it is impossible (other than through non-disjunction) to get 3 alleles (mojave/lesser/phantom/etc...) on the same gene
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If that is the case, then it sounds to me like these genes are similar to the "super" form of something like a BEL that was made from a mojo to lesser.
All the babies will be mojave or lesser.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

www.youtube.com/reptilenexus

Basically, they all act like Supers in that sense...... just asking if I am 100% right and if anyone has seen otherwise.

Kevin
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Kevin you are absolutely right with all those crosses. Those genes are in the same genetic complex and combined to form a homozygous animal that the two genes then split when bred.

I think the genetics that seem to be most interesting is the toffino (toffee x albino) cross.

Looking at the history, you would think it would act much the same as these other genes have.... alleles of the same gene that in it's homozygous form would then be forced to split...

However, so many people breeding to make toffinos in hopes the genes meld and creates it's own gene that when bred will produce 0 het toffinos! What happens if toffinos split and produce (50% het toffees and P het albinos) and unlike the puma, highway, vanilla cream, where the genes are obvious to distinguish from one another, the toffino offspring will all look normal and will be terrible in future breeding projects and a dead end. It's gonna be basically impossible to split the genes once they've been crossed?

I think the female toffee/candy gets took a huge hit when the compatibility came to light, however how much is that gonna change when the toffino doesn't make 100% het toffinos?? Last I checked double het males don't sell very well on their own.

Genetic question of the year for me.

A toffino bred to an albino should produce 50% albino and 50% toffino and when bred to a 100% toffee should produce 100% visual toffee but 50% will be toffee and 50% will be toffino.

Garrick will be the first to be able to test this so he needs to weigh in...

A Toffino bred to a normal should produce all normals that are 100% het for either Albino or Toffee. Sure, it's a little complicated, but not a dead end.

Say you breed a Toffino to a Pinstripe; you would get half normal (100% het for Albino or toffee) and half Pinstripes (100% het for Albino or Toffee). It's a fast way to make some cool combos. We will have to come up with some dumb name for the "definitely het for either Toffee or Albino"s though. Maybe we can call them "muttffino hets".

It only gets messy if you can't eventually tell the difference between a Toffee and a Toffino.

its not a fast way to make anything other than a cluster%^* until it breeds, and you hold offspring back for at least a year,you wont know what the parent animal was het for.

so you have literally 3-4 years,at the soonest, in the case of mystery het females before finding out if they are het toffee or het albino
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

I would guess that the Toffino acts like a bumble bee....So yes, those hets would be a tough one for sure..... GOOD POINT!

K
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I dont think it will act like a bumblebee? if so a toffino would be able to reproduce its self to a normal... that would open another can of worms lol
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Jason Amos

Ball Pythons
6.40
Dogs
1.1 Staffordshire Bull Terriers

I had tunnel vision and I was putting simple recessive on the same plane as Co-Dom/Dom stuff!!

You are right!!!! Can not reproduce itself like that...needs an albino as the "normal".

Kevin
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looking at you list of stuff you listed here I noticed what a great "unlocking gene" the YB seems to be. I have a very unusual looking male last year that came from a clutch where he would have been a Normal by-product and normally would go off to the pet store but after looking at the unusual flames and blushing all over him I decided to hold him back and use him to a female YB this next year just to see if he makes anything outstanding or unusual when bred to her. Heck he may be nothing more than a great looking Normal but its worth a try. Here is a couple pictures of him and he has a very clear clean belly to boot. Jay

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JEMreptiles@gmail.com from sunny AZ.

Lots of cool Ball Pythons along with
0.0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty and some great Bull snakes.
1.1 Argentinian Black and White Tegus
1.0 Gotti Pitbull (Tank)
2.0 Beautiful Bengals (Stryker and Cynbad)
12 Tarantulas
Last but most Important 2.2 Children

Yes, those flames really catch my eye..... You have to wonder what other things will react with YB like what we already have seen. THis year should be interesting for some of my YB projects.... I am working on getting the Ivory to show some stuff by trying to overpower it with a bunch of genes dumped on top of it...or is that under it?

S
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

I haven't done most of theses breeding but that's what I have seen.

But would really like to know if there has ever been another result.

What I would also like to know,

Toffee x Lavender Albino.

Since the toffino is looking like a lavender, I would wonder if theses wouldn't also be compatible even if the normal albino and lavender aren't.

Could it be the middle gene, compatible with both ?
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love this world, don't hate it.

fairly certain in 1 of our league posts, it had been stated that pairing had already been done and that it wasn't compatible iirc
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www.bamreptiles.webs.com
www.facebook.com/bamreptiles

Since Lavender and Albino are not comp. then I would guess they would not align either.

Kevin
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

What about Soul Suckers? Can they make soulsuckers when breed to a normal?