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Couple of questions. Will kingsnakes generally refuse food during gestation? Does it normally take about 4 weeks between a hookup to when the eggs are laid and will they usually shed right before laying?

>>Couple of questions. Will kingsnakes generally refuse food during gestation? Does it normally take about 4 weeks between a hookup to when the eggs are laid and will they usually shed right before laying?

WHAT KIND OF KINGS???

And there is a common misconception that females will refuse food....but if the keeper keeps offering them normal sized prey they will typically refuse that size. It is best to offer them smaller prey items. If a female is not intaking food from the time they become gravid, throughout gestation and a pre egg laying shed cycle, then 10 days after the shed (nesting is another topic) she will go around 2 months with no food. That's why folks see skinny, triangular shaped females lay eggs. I know I've seen it before myself, in my snake room years back.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>>>Couple of questions. Will kingsnakes generally refuse food during gestation? Does it normally take about 4 weeks between a hookup to when the eggs are laid and will they usually shed right before laying?
>>

And yes there is a "pre egg laying shed"
The time between this shed and eggs being laid depends on the nesting area provided. The shorter the time the better.
I have yet to get eggs before 4 days after a pre egg laying shed but 7 is typical. The TFH books and caresheets say 10 to 14.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I found it varies from species to species, even subspecies.
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What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

>>I found it varies from species to species, even subspecies.

Thus my first question in all caps.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>>>I found it varies from species to species, even subspecies.
>>
>>
>>Thus my first question in all caps.....
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>>John Lassiter
>>Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>
>>

Then I'm agreeing with you, lol.
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What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

>>>>>>I found it varies from species to species, even subspecies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thus my first question in all caps.....
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>>>>John Lassiter
>>>>Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>Then I'm agreeing with you, lol.
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>>What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
>>King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
>> ~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com
>>
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

"That's why folks see skinny, triangular shaped females lay eggs. I know I've seen it before myself, in my snake room years back."

Would you consider these skinny, John?

Kingsnake2 by RossCA323, on Flickr

Kingsnake1 by RossCA323, on Flickr
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>>"That's why folks see skinny, triangular shaped females lay eggs. I know I've seen it before myself, in my snake room years back."
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>>Would you consider these skinny, John?
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>>Kingsnake2 by RossCA323, on Flickr
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>>Kingsnake1 by RossCA323, on Flickr
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Not for wild caughts..... But yea skinny If they were my captives.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Even if mine feed, they still come out looking like that in the end.
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>>Even if mine feed, they still come out looking like that in the end.
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How long typically from shed to egg laying for you?
I have played with different nesting areas over the years and the shortest I've had was 4 days.....they average being 7......and they seldom want food in that period but there are some that will snack on fuzzies even on the same day they lay....
The time from out of brumation to ovulation is another period where females can put on the weight without ever being obese since they use all the calories up producing their eggs......

I'm sure your snakes are good and healthy Ross.... And most of my experience is with Mexican kings but I see room for improvements on my techniques every year....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Well put John. We ALL can improve on things every day/year, ect. We will NEVER know it all, but can always strive to improve out care for our animals. I find my gravid girls will eat smaller and smaller items as they progress in their gestation cycle. Most of my females will eat after pre-lay shed, but only something like large pinks or tiny fuzzies. Same goes for right out of brumation. They will refuse all but the smallest of food items for their first meals.

Joe

We ALL can improve on things every day/year, ect. We will NEVER know it all, but can always strive to improve out care for our animals.

If you feed the females well through the season they can triple clucth and you won't have any malnourished snakes.

Yes that is why one should feed their females AS MUCH AS THEY WILL EAT. They don't get traingular with the spine sticking out even if they do go off food before laying.
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Yeah, its around 7 days after the last shed. I wish I could find the perfect lay box for them, so they would just lay right away.
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>>Yeah, its around 7 days after the last shed. I wish I could find the perfect lay box for them, so they would just lay right away.
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I've kinda gotten away from "boxes" for the larger females.....They work "okay" for smaller females only.....IMHO

For the larger females I just turn half (or more) of their enclosure into a nesting "area"........I do need to rethink the lay area medium/substrate though. I am thinking moist Peat Moss and sand or a mixture of moist Eco Earth and sand....something they can actually make a "nest" out of and it holds its shape. The Sphagnum moss doesn't hold its shape too well, but has been "sufficient" over the years. Then there's temperatures to ponder...I think that if I turn half of their enclosure into a nesting area then it should be length-wise so that there is a hot/moist end and a cool/moist end, but they always tend to lay their eggs towards the warmer side of the enclosure....So should I turn the back half into a nesting area?
Or should I just turn their entire enclosure into a nesting area?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

You could experiment and do half of the females one way, and the other half the other way. Do you lay something down in there for them to get under and lay the eggs?
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>>You could experiment and do half of the females one way, and the other half the other way. Do you lay something down in there for them to get under and lay the eggs?
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Yes...Usually a 16qt tub lid with a heavy rock on it...

I think I will try a few differently and see what "seems" to work best.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

One year I had a female very active looking for a place to lay her eggs and it went on for 5 days, so I started getting worried. Her lay box was in there that she always used, but wasn't interested this time. I then replaced the substrate with a mixture of vermiculite and sphagnum moss that I was using to hatch the eggs. It was about 3" deep and a put a good size piece of roofing tile in there for her to get under and lay the eggs. I also kept her box in there just in case. Well, she continued searching for two more days and finally laid the eggs in the box. Maybe it would have worked out different with a different substrate.
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I think those two look great - they will bounce back very quickly with just a few meals.

Great discussion you guys. I did alot of trial and error years back, and I agree with you both - the most important things are that the female is well fed for energy, that she is well hydrated for egg production and laying, and that she has a nest area she likes.

The first two are pretty easy to provide. Its that last thing. Seems like there will always be a female that snubs what another female will like. Most of the time, a deep box of soil (I used coir fiber and sand the last time I bred Cal kings) and a board over some of the area seemed to be well received by most. They will sometimes lay deeper in the soil than I had thought they would. (Cal kings aren't afraid to dig down in loose soil.) I moved the females to a cage for this, not a sweaterbox - too small and low for the nest box I was using.

Sorry, one of my Thayeri. She was eating like a pig but has refused my last two attempts. I'll try a smaller mouse. She is also past due to shed but currently shows no signs.

Thanks for the advice, I'm new to breeding, uh, snakes that is

I tried some fuzzies last night, no luck. Will try some large pinks in a few days. Glad I have other snakes that are garbage disposals