Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are Hypo Stillwater Bulls locality? Finding one at a rattlesnake roundup in Stillwater does not make it Stillwater locality. Was the location of it's capture determined without doubt? I was just wondering. They are still one of my favorites, and am happy to have one and some hets. Mine is not quite as nice as the last one posted though. Very nice.

It's a very good question,it would be interesting to know a little more about the history...I'd also like to know what the original locality,(presumed,or factual) is/was of the other form of hypo bull? Anyone have any info? (love to see some photos too,I think they're poorly represented here.)
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Captive born excellence through applied genetic theory...and,astute observations based on a keen sense of the sometimes painfully obvious

Here is the history of those snakes.....

In the mid 1990's a friend of mine by the name of Adam Marty called to say he hatched out an odd looking bull snake (Pituophis c. sayi). I managed to travel out to his home town in MI and took a look at the snake. It was a nice example of nearly amelanistic hypomelanism. In other words the black pigment was nearly missing but present.

Adam got the two founder normal looking bull snakes from a friend who rescued them from a roundup in Stillwater OK. The claim was that they were wild caught and I believed that story. The two normal adults looked fairly beat up and had definitely been chewed on by a rat of two! I never knew the name of Adam's friend nor did we ever know the "vendor" or roundup participant that he got them from.

One could speculate that these snakes came from somewhere near there because what financial gain would the fellow have for traveling a great distance? However there is no locality data for this line. They could have been collected from that county, the next town over, or they could have come from TX.

The following year I ended up with the adults and all their offspring (Thanks Adam). I hand picked what I thought were the nicest ones and the rest were dispersed. These two hold backs parented all of the still waters out there today.

In this context The Stillwater Hypo refers not so much as a distinct locality but rather a blood line. In other words if I drive out to Stillwater OK and pick up a male bull snake to breed with my "Stillwater hypo" the offspring are not truly "Stillwater Hypos".

With that said however, who really cares and simple genetics tells us that we run the risk of getting negative traits if we continue to inbreed the line. I have an F2 pair that I breed that produce vigorous healthy offspring and I probably won't ever need to breed F3 for my collection so this is not an issue for me but it may become an issue. These two were my founders as older adults.

I really love getting this kind of info,and I appreciate you taking the time to share it...do you know anything about the origin of the "other" form of Sayi hypo?
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Captive born excellence through applied genetic theory...and,astute observations based on a keen sense of the sometimes painfully obvious