Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://legiscan.com/gaits/text/620164

Here is a link to a bill that is being / has been introduced. This is where we're heading folks. I don't think this bill includes reptiles, YET, unless I've read it wrong. We've got to keep on our toes and fight these sort of things, cause we're next.........

Now I'm not real good at reading legal documentation, so if someone could read this and break it down in simpler terms that'd be great.

and if you sell more than five animals...meaning if you even give them away you will need a dealers permit which I think is $250 a year!!!

$25 - 50.00 per pet per year..... permit...

50 animals - $1,250 at least per year

Going to hell and Satan is sick of it!

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

i read through it a couple of times. i didn't see anything about any reptiles in there.

i saw that emg posted about "even pet frogs" but i didn't see that part. maybe i just missed it.

while i'm not sure how i would react if they passed a law against the reptiles i keep, i do believe there should be some regulations in place. for example... i was in a pet shop once and heard a sales person tell a lady and kid that the burmese python would stay small as long as they kept it in a 10 gallon aquarium. i about blew a gasket. then you have the jackasses that get large reptiles and then release them here in florida. it's a common thing to have large pythons, monitors, and tegus show up here. or up north the genius that let lose large dangerous animals.

there are many responsible pet owners out there. there are always going to be a few jackasses that screw things up though.

while i don't think exotics should be banned, i do think that there should be some regulations. too many people getting them without the proper knowledge or means to take care of them. just my 2 cents...

jonathan

Thanks for your reply.

I hear what you're saying about permits, and while if ya had to have one or two, I could probably live with it. But a $25 permit per animal, when you have over 200 animals is a death blow to the keepers. I shouldn't have to pay $5000 a yr just to keep my snakes. Thats just ridiculous!! It's bad enough for me, I couldn't imagine the ones that have 500-1000 animals......

agreed. that would be a major blow to people who have large collections. i don't necessarily agree with the permits. i'm not sure what would be a good solution....

are you kidding me????????

SO, who is going to regulate us????? A moron that does not even know what the animal is that we want to keep?

Wow....... your logic is DREADFUL...perhaps, you have never met or had to deal with the people that enforce these laws?

Not a clue.

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

all non indigenous animals and the following,

4

regardless of whether the animals are bred or reared in

5

captivity or imported from another state or nation:

See that world "ALL"?????? REPTILES!!!!!!! AMPHIBIANS!!!!! CROCODILIANS!!!!! LIZARDS!!!!! THey all fall under "ALL"!!!

They name some stuff but that is after it says "including"....

So, people like you think that it is partially a good thing to have "goons" issue permits and enforce them? You think this will help what??????

Are you kidding me that you think the Burms in SOuthern Florida are from released pets?????????????????????

Minimal...... DId you read about the Hurricane that destroyed a facility and released ummmm 900 burms????

With this kind of logic within our community we do not stand a chance...... evidently we need to educate ourselves about what is coming before people like you actually stand up and help the rest of us FIGHT THIS!!!!

So, do you also think that you should have insurance for each one of your pets to protect people from injury?????

Kevin
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

down to a pet frog!!!!!!

SARTAN

>>http://legiscan.com/gaits/text/620164
>>
>>Here is a link to a bill that is being / has been introduced. This is where we're heading folks. I don't think this bill includes reptiles, YET, unless I've read it wrong. We've got to keep on our toes and fight these sort of things, cause we're next.........
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Ok Satan, I'm not trying to argue with ya, first off. Now, as I've said, I'm not good with reading these legislations. As I read it, I didn't see any herps on those lists. Someone else read it and didn't see them listed either. So I'm trying to learn here. This is my goal for this post. I'm not trying to be a smart ass with my next question. How/where did you see them included?? Is it in one of the sub chapters that would make you look up another form or whatever???? Like I said I must be missing something here, so please explain what parts your getting it from. It'll help me learn how to read these documents in the future, and what parts to use to try and fight this.

Thanks for all your help man!

It states "all nonindigenous animals and the following". All non indigenous reptiles to the state would then BE INCLUDED. It then goes on to list animals not included and no where on that list are any reptiles or amphibians so they MUST BE INCLUDED in the "all non indigenous animals" heading.

>>It states "all nonindigenous animals and the following". All non indigenous reptiles to the state would then BE INCLUDED. It then goes on to list animals not included and no where on that list are any reptiles or amphibians so they MUST BE INCLUDED in the "all non indigenous animals" heading.
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

all nonindigenous animals

What does that mean then....??? All animals that do not come from PA!!!!!!!!!!

Then they also do including..... to double up on the fact that you will not be able to own a WEREWOLF!!!

Since people can not read through this easily and understand it they think...oh good, it does not include my pets..... WRONG!

It does, but more importantly it includes everyone else's pets too!!!! We have to stop thinking it won't effect me...in the end all restrictions like this will only ruin it down the road for ALL OF US!

Did you see that law that almost went through with West VA????

THat was another one that would ban ALL Reptiles and AMphibians!!!! ALL..

Do you know that they are talking about banning corn snakes and ball pythons in Indo??? Because the Govt is seeing all of this over here and jumping on the TUG Boat IGNORANCE!

Take some time and look...Illinois proposed law would require you to have a $250 permit for a Marine Toad...... a yearly permit and you must have a $100K liability permit with the species named on the insurance policy...and you would not be allowed to let anyone touch it...and if you did you could be arrested for endangerment to that person and charged with a class 4 misdemeanor(or is that felony). IF you enticed them to hold it touch or scared them with the pet toad you could be arrested....

all for a toad!

The fact that we don't seem to think that this is a BIG DEAL is just plain sad.....
The fact that I am having to explain this non-sense is even worse. We are losing our rights and all of us need to understand it and educate others.

Kevin

and the following,

4

regardless of whether the animals are bred or reared in

5

captivity or imported from another state or nation:
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Hmm.... I did see the "all non-native part" does this include reptiles though? I didn't see anything about any reptiles, amphibians, arachnids, or birds being listed. I'm looking at it as not such a bad thing. If someone has a bear or lion for a pet, you don't think they should be held accountable and regulated?

I agree that many of the sterio types about reptiles and some of the laws are rediculous. Yah, try and get homeowners ins and let them know that you have a bp. Doesn't go so well. On the other hand, not having any regulations or accountability at all has been a contributing factor in numerous situations that have given the exotics hobby a bad name.

EVERYTHING.....as in if it is not native it will require a permit....If you don't think there is a permit process for Bears and Lions you are MISTAKEN.

They are not naming Spiders, Frogs, snakes because that is the way they do it...SWEEPING hand....... they just happen to include some of the big ones....

EVERYTHING........

IT is NOT GOOD
NOT GOOD
NOT GOOD!!!!!

Even SATAN HATES IT!
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Is it possible that some people don't understand that "animals" includes reptiles in its definition? I generally make a distinction when I am referring to animals, reptiles or birds, but I believe that in this case the term is intentionally ambiguous and very far reaching.

Rev. Jim

i read it again and you may be right. it only named warm blooded creatures, but i can see how they could use that to come after reptiles as well.

alright, here is the million dollar question...

what can be done about it? i signed the petition awhile back. i'm a contributing member of usark. honestly, what else can be done?

while i believe that there should be some regulations with the potentially dangerous animals, to ban or regulate the smaller non dangerous ones is wrong. to encompass everything in one swoop seems underhanded as well.

and there's the problem...you are leaving the decision on what is dangerous or non-dangerous up to someone that has no clue. You give them an inch & they'll take a mile!

Ok, what would you consider dangerous????

And these permits would protect whom?

Do you realize that much of this new regulation is to protect
people from animals escaping and then becoming free to roam the streets and maul people?

Have we ever heard of our pet reptiles getting free and attacking people? These permits do nothing to help this besides make it IMPOSSIBLE to have them as pets.

Do you realize with your ideas as "dangerous" the Insurance companies are tweaking out over our pets and creating huge problems for us?

Liability Insurance for your dangerous pet snake?

This includes ball pythons, corn snakes.....

No, they don't need permits to protect us from dangerous pets. We already have a bunch of them and don't need more.... evidently you do not keep anything big or dangerous and you don't have experience in this area.

I don't need the Govt to protect me from my pets and I certainly don't need them to protect others from my pets.

Just you wait til the insurance companies sink their teeth in all this 'dangerous" mumbo jumbo.....

A bearded dragon, YOU HAVE A BEARDED DRAGON??

That sounds DANGEROUS.... get rid of it or no insurance!
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Actually, I wrote "potentially dangerous" I live in Florida and there are instances on a regular basis of a large constrictor or monitor found in residential areas. Have kids? How would you like to have one of them walk up on a large burm because someone got it thinking it was cool, got too late to handle, and let it go? OR like I mentioned in an earlier post, I heard a guy at a pet shop telling a lady and kid to keep the hatchling burm in a 10 gallon and it would not grow any larger. There should be some accountability. when they passed the top 5 law in Florida it requires some accountability. I personally don't think that's a bad thing since there are so many people that abuse the priviledge to own reptiles. when they passed that law, they seemed to be targeting the ones that have had a major impact on this state.

This was a northern bill and we just had the genius that let loose multiple large and potentially dangerous animals, such as the ones listed. I didn't see any reptiles listed on there, but I doubt they have to worry too much about a breeding population of Burms being a potential problem there.

I feel as though they should not have covered all exotics in the bill. The ones that are listed and you are supposed to have permits for, I think are justified. I think the bill should be amended not to cover all exotics though.

>>what can be done about it? i signed the petition awhile back. i'm a contributing member of usark. honestly, what else can be done?

Here is my 25 cent answer. Local, county and state ways of fighting.

Signing online petitions for legal fights is a waste of time and useless.

1. Draft a personal email sent from your email account, not some spamming thing. Your email account. You can easily steal things from other form letters, but make it personal.
Dear XXX
I dont like this law and this is why. My personal impact. The community impact.
Thank you.
It does not need to be 5 pages. Just you in your words saying why it is bad. SPELL CHECK. Do not use attack or inflammatory words.

2. Take that email that you just sent to a bunch of people. Print it and MAIL it to them. Old fashioned snail mail!

3. Call each person you sent that email too. Follow up.

OK here comes the hard part. Reach out to others. Non-native means ferrets, birds, fish. Got a herp society? See what they are doing. Got a reptile rescue? Contact them! Bird rescues, yep email them. Ferret rescues? House Rabbit society? Small animal rescues? Fish clubs? Email them ALL. Don't just sit and wait. Draft a general letter to the people in charge of voting. Stand in your local all pet store (not a reptile store). Pet lovers love pets. They dont understand all pets, but they understand the bond between pet and owner. Take a stack of 100 letters and stand in your local pet store and get signatures. The signature must include the zip code of the person signing, but if you can get the full address, that is even better. Get those letters to prove people are watching and people care.

The pit bull community has used this tactic for many years and prevented new breed specific legislation. It is time for the reptile community to do the same. This is the tactic that is being used here in WI as we fight. Kevin has heard me rant on this many times.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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All living things on this planet fall into one of the six Kingdoms of Life. These Kingdoms are: Archaebacteria, Eubacteria, Protista, Fungi, Plantae, and Animalia.

Last time I checked reptiles and amphibians were not bacterial (Archae- or Eu-), Protist, Fungus or Plant.

This is not rocket science. If the "concept" that reptiles and amphibians are animals is too difficult for you to comprehend then kindly go back to elementary school.