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Anyone have good pictures of Smith's milksnake? I recently picked up a snake that was mis-Ided by the dealer (a chain store) as a Pueblan.
Going through Markel's the nearest I could come to it was the description and photo on pg 107 Markel Id's as a Smiths.
Only difference seems black mottling covering both nostrils. The rest of the snout is pale white-orange.Black band on head is small and the back of it heartshapped. Very little black tipping on white bands, none on red.bands cross the belly unobstructed.Snake measures 2'.
I'm lousy at posting pics (sorry).

Well, first off I can 100% GUARANTEE that it definitely is not an L.t.smithi you found at a pet store..LOL!. I know this just as sure as the sun will rise out of the east tomorrow. That is one subspecies that is TOTALLY non-existent in the U.S hobby...PERIOD! I, as well as many others I know would give their left test#@le for some genuinely authentic Smith's milksnakes....

If there were any available in the US or Europe, I would know about it a long time ago. I have only even SEEN a few photos of any authentic L.t.smithi in my decades of being heavy into milksnakes. The photo on page 107 in Markels book is a very poor example of L.t.smithi in my opinion anyway, and is likely an intergrade specimen at best itself.

By comparing the photo in the book you mentioned, I would guess it is probably a very common Nelson's milksnake you have, or even a man-made cross of some kind as this unfortunately is done in today's hobby all the time now by people. Knowing the origin of a snake at a pet store is virtually impossible, but if it keys out as a textbook example of a subspecies it could very well be.

Milksnakes can be EXTREMELY tricky to identify even for the most well-seasoned milksnake guru on his very best day, and that is because it depends on so darn many factors. There are just so many variables that can make identifying some impossible. However, if it is a good authentic specimen of a certain subspecies, It can be esily identified.

Here is an authentic D.O.R.(dead on road) L.t.smithi that was found in Hidalgo, Mexico.

http://www.naherp.com/photo.php?v_id=79619

If you PM me from my username in blue text at the above left side of the screen, I can reply back and you can email me the photo. Please try to make it a good quality full-body shot with all the rings visible and a nice clear head shot as well so the snout and light temporal band around the head are nice and visible, then I can give you a very good educated opinion on what it is, or might be. There are a million possible variables, believe me. I can tell you from decades of experience that most employees at a pet store might have better luck trying to identify different strains of flu virus or dinosoar bones they found in their back yard than with many of the milksnake subspecies.

It could be almost anything though without being able to look at it though.

Anyway, here is a very typical looking Nelson's milksnake, and hopefully you can email me some decent pics of your snake to find out what it is, .....or isn't. If you click on my site below in the signature and go to the "photo gallery" page, you will find some other nelson's, Pueblan milks, and others too.

cheers, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Thanks for the response Doug.

Dont think its a Nelson's, the red bands are not wide enough. I didn't figure it was a Smith's but the picture and description was so close that I wanted comparrison pictures.Also to give the idea of what it looked like.

The likelyhood is that this is one of those crosses or an intergrade.

Will be sending you the photos old friend.

Very interesting indeed!.....I look forward to it!..

cheers, ~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Anything come of this?

Scott

Despite having some similarities, we pretty much decided it was just a mutt.
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