Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All,

Thank you again for all of your replies to my posting yesterday. I went home and took a few pics of my snake (Evel K). He is almost 4 feet long, and as I mentioned, I have enjoyed having him his entire life.

Hopefully there are many more years left in Evel!

Don

Sorry, can't seem to figure out how to post pics.

Here are the links to the photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79563091@N06/6973008660/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79563091@N06/7119089583/in/photostream/

Hopefully this works!

thanks for providing pictures. nice looking snake.

i know in your previous posts you said what you had fed Evel throughout his life, but what has your feeding schedule been like?

once a week, 2X a week, 2 mice once a week?

also, did you ever cool/brumate the snake or keep him going year round?

Hi,

For most of my snake's life he has eaten at least weekly during the summer months, bi-weekly or every three weeks during cooler months, and then monthly (or sometime longer) during winter months. Our house temperature never gets below 60 degrees and living in the Bay Area, the house is usually in the mid-to-upper 70's. I never tried to intentionally brumate the snake, but during the winter when the house temperature is about 62-66 degrees, he does become less active, although I will turn on a heat rock for him when he becomes active in the winter.

Wow, that snake is only two years younger than me. There is a lot of stuff that could have went wrong along the way. That is really amazing! I've learned a lot from your posts the past couple of days. Thanks for sharing your story.
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>>Wow, that snake is only two years younger than me. There is a lot of stuff that could have went wrong along the way. That is really amazing! I've learned a lot from your posts the past couple of days. Thanks for sharing your story.
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Hey Ross....
I am not being facetious or anything....I am really curious....
But what are you going to actually change, if anything with your husbandry techniques from what you have learned here?

It is amazing that the snake has lived through cedar and the dreaded hot rock......And he still looks great....I see cataracts just as the old ruthveni here has......

I wonder if the snake has dimpled scales like most old kings do.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Boy, I don't know. My big thing this year is experimenting with the laying boxes.
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>>Boy, I don't know. My big thing this year is experimenting with the laying boxes.
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I really meant....what gave you learned from this 37 year old californiae to make you think about adjustments?

As far as lay boxes go.....ive resorted to turning at least half of the enclosure into a nesting area rather than a box to lay in.....some snakes get their entire enclosure converted to nesting criteria....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I've learned not to get rid of my snakes. lol Right now, I've had one for almost 7 years and that is the longest I've ever kept one. I plan on keeping this one until it dies or until I die. We'll see who goes first. lol

That's exactly what I'm going to attempt this year and see if they lay any sooner. What do you use? I'm thinking sphagnum moss or a mixture of pete moss and sand. Any reason why not to use either of those, in your opinion?
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>>I've learned not to get rid of my snakes. lol Right now, I've had one for almost 7 years and that is the longest I've ever kept one. I plan on keeping this one until it dies or until I die. We'll see who goes first. lol
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>>That's exactly what I'm going to attempt this year and see if they lay any sooner. What do you use? I'm thinking sphagnum moss or a mixture of pete moss and sand. Any reason why not to use either of those, in your opinion?
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Lol...
As far as duration from shed to lay I've had about the same results.....the peat moss and sand mixture just holds it's firm better.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>>>I've learned not to get rid of my snakes. lol Right now, I've had one for almost 7 years and that is the longest I've ever kept one. I plan on keeping this one until it dies or until I die. We'll see who goes first. lol
>>>>
>>>>That's exactly what I'm going to attempt this year and see if they lay any sooner. What do you use? I'm thinking sphagnum moss or a mixture of pete moss and sand. Any reason why not to use either of those, in your opinion?
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>>Lol...
>>As far as duration from shed to lay I've had about the same results.....the peat moss and sand mixture just holds it's firm better.....

Form not firm....iPhone and fat fingers this time.....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

LOL Happens to me all the time. Seems like there should be a way to get them to lay earlier without searching through the whole cage for a few days. One year I had one search for 5 days and I started getting worried. At that point I filled the cage about 4 inches of moist Sphagnum and vermiculite mixed together and laid a thin piece of tile on top that was around 10 X 12". I also put the lay box in there to give her a choice. Two days later she laid her eggs in the damn box. lol She was a first time mom too, so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it.
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There's a lot that could be learned from experiments by those of us on the forum. We don't do enough controlled testing of variables. I plead guilty of that myself, when I was breeding: it's easy to decide to stick with what's already working well.

In this instance, anyone with cages large enough to permit two boxes could include two, one with each of the two types of materials. You'd have to make sure the boxes are identical and in some way assure that the boxes' distances from the heated end was not a factor.

Some readers here breed enough pairs that their results would have some statistical significance and not be merely anecdotal. For others, having someone on the forum collect the results from everyone running the same test would result in a large sample that would be meaningful.

Others might instead test two differently shaped lay boxes, or sizes of lay boxes, or boxes made of different materials, placement at hot or cool ends, or even the orientation of the box's opening to light in the housing. (to increase the sophistication of these tests, everyone testing two different materials, for example, should control so that the sphagnum has about the same amount of water absorbed in it – this could be measured by the change in weight from the spagnum dry to once it's been wetted; similarly the peat and sand mix should contain those two elements in the same percentages. The sizes of boxes will of course vary according to species, but a quick conversation on this forum could probably result in some agreement for a range of box size-to-snake species.)

The key of course is that in a given year each breeder test only a single variable. This shouldn't be disruptive to most because the test can always include one box the way the breeder's been doing things and then a second one with only one of the variables changed. The biggest problem might be that it requires animals be kept in housing large enough to accommodate two lay boxes.

The nice thing is that even if a few of your animals have already layed this year, they can simply be excluded from the data collection and you can begin your experiment now.

One of the things you can notice is that if a particular female seems happy with a particular nest box, in subsequent years she will pretty much be happy with that same nest box.

It is the first-time females that would be a good subject to test because they will not be choosing nest boxes based on past learned behaviors. I also think different females may choose different styles, but we won't know for sure without the test.

There is, and I have brought that up many times.

There are more then simple nest types envolved, you have individual behavior and learned behavior.

In most cases what these animals do is a combination of inherest and learned behavior. In this case, they have instints that guide them to nest in certain type areas. Then learned behavior based on where THEY hatched and what works.

for instance, we tested nests year after year. We found then had a preference for a nest they already used, over one they never used before. Even if precieved conditions were better in the new nest.

Also depth darkness and feel, as well as humidity and temps are very very important.

And yes, we had kings commonly lay the day after shedding to five days post shed.

When they did that, they lost very little weight and regained water loss very very quickly. Cheers

Thanks. That is a lot to consider.
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This is something that we as snake keepers and breeders REALLY need to consider. A 37 year old snake, possibly outside the norm, still should remind us how long our animals are supposed to live. Even if it's half that of Evel's life, we should expect 18-20 years from our animals if kept in proper conditions.

I bought an adult tree boa about 10 years ago. She was clearly an old snake then, but still had 10 healthy years in her. I put her down this year and it was the first time I've euthanized a snake because it was experiencing a decreased quality of life due to AGE.

Hopefully more of us start to experience the entire long life of our captives.

>>This is something that we as snake keepers and breeders REALLY need to consider. A 37 year old snake, possibly outside the norm, still should remind us how long our animals are supposed to live. Even if it's half that of Evel's life, we should expect 18-20 years from our animals if kept in proper conditions.
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I have always thought that the normal expected life of any colubrid was well over 20....
I have many animals here that are in their high teens, a few over twenty and one ruthveni of Shannon's that was a wild caught adult in 1983.... I believe him to at least be 32 years of age.....he has been through at least 4 different keepers with different husbandry ideas and techniques....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

" Hopefully more of us start to experience the entire long life of our captives. "

I hear ya!

My oldest is my Sinaloan milk, who is 18 this year. I have a few 15 year old pits and corn as well.

If there are no medical issues with a snake that they are born with, like you said, we should be experiencing long lives of our snakes. Buddy of mine usually has all of his adult breeders breed well in their mid-twenties.
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Genesis 1:1