Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As I was returning my adult female alterna to her cage today, she crawled over my hand and I could feel eggs inside her. I have decided not to breed my pair this year, partly because she had problems passing the last two eggs last year (and maybe a year off to grow some more would be helpful), and because I am still working on finding homes for last years offspring. In the experience of the group here, will she re-absorb the eggs or lay them? Is she likely to have a harder time laying infertile eggs than fertile ones?

Also, if she does end up looking like she will lay eggs, should I go ahead and give her a nest box? It seems like she would be more likely to settle down and lay them if I did, rather than holding them longer.

Thanks,
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.1 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
5.8 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
2.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 20??

>>As I was returning my adult female alterna to her cage today, she crawled over my hand and I could feel eggs inside her. I have decided not to breed my pair this year, partly because she had problems passing the last two eggs last year (and maybe a year off to grow some more would be helpful), and because I am still working on finding homes for last years offspring. In the experience of the group here, will she re-absorb the eggs or lay them? Is she likely to have a harder time laying infertile eggs than fertile ones?
>>
>>Also, if she does end up looking like she will lay eggs, should I go ahead and give her a nest box? It seems like she would be more likely to settle down and lay them if I did, rather than holding them longer.

Give her a lay box and, yes fertile eggs are passed easier than infertile in my past experience....

I've seen infertile eggs from a year prior get laid the following year prior to the fertile....
I've also seen infertile eggs stay in a female for numerous years while she still produces fertile eggs via her clear oviduct.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Great! Now I am going to worry!
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.1 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
3.6 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
2.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 20??

>>Great! Now I am going to worry!
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>>Kent
>>
>>1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
>>1.1 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
>>3.6 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
>>2.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 20??

If it makes you feel better.... I have seen females absorb eggs as well....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Thanks John. I guess I will just see what happens. I am just not in a position to deal with more alterna hatchlings this year. Too much going on...
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.1 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
3.6 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
2.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 20??

I have had several females absorb their eggs too. I tend to think if there was no copulation they would be absorbed, but I've heard of people finding eggs in a cage of a solitary pet also. As for the infertiles being harder to pass? Most infertile eggs are usually smaller and slimy, like the typical duds. At least that's what I've seen. There are always exceptions. Kent I would make sure she is well fed and also dust her food with Calcium. The Calcium is not for the eggs, it's for the snake.
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What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Jorge, not trying to be argumentative, but shouldn't she get enough calcium from eating adult mice that are fed a very good diet?
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.1 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
3.6 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
2.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 20??

I think the point is being missed. The best possible course is to breed your female to a male, nest the female as best you can and then throw the eggs away.

Anything other then that is taking a huge risk for the female.

In this case, its not about you, or what your ready for, its about the female, so do the right thing and take care of her.

If you do not want eggs, take her to the vet and have her fixed. Then there is nothing for you to worry about. Good luck

Kent someone made an excellent post here a while back. I wish I would have saved it. I don't even remember the guys name, but He explained the importance of Calcium in the blood. It is the reason many females become exhausted during the laying process, and give up before all the eggs are laid. It's interesting to note that one of the remedies many Vets use for eggbound females is a shot of Calcium. I really wish I could find that post, it was about a year ago, but I don't have the time to search for it. Good luck!
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What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

is this the post you were looking for?

forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1911552,1912374&key=2011
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I have only seen one animal that got egg bound with fertile eggs. The others have all been bound with slugs or a slug. The one that was egg bound with mostly fertile eggs was bound for a different reason. She evidently had a bad shed and this was not noticed by the keeper and she had a "ring" of dried shed right above her cloaca. This created a "pinch" point and she could not pass most of her eggs. Even after removing the dried she there was still a tight spot from the ring of shed skin. I called a friend at the zoo and had my buddy bring the snake to them. I got to assist in the operation and we removed all the eggs. (Two fell to the ground during the extraction). There were a couple of slugs that had hardened and were stuck as well. The good eggs were taken back and incubated. All hatched out no problem. EVEN the two that fell! We used a combination of duct tape and adhesives to close the wound and the snake just shed the duct tape off with her next shed. This animal is still alive and well and even laid a good healthy clutch this past season. (the animal was a blood red corn).

That's very interesting how you guys closed it up.
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Wow!,......that is amazing to know that she is not only alive and well now, but has also laid good eggs after that episode. Great to hear a story with such a nice outcome once in a while Joe!...

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Joe, I like that duck tape idea, I won't forget it.
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Gerard

"Ten minutes to wapner..."

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

I wish I could take credit for the outcome, but all the credit goes to the zoo staff. I cannot remember the ladies name for the life of me, but she is the one with all the know how and had actually done the operation several times before. My buddy there that works with the reptiles asked her to do the proceedure and she was kind enough to help us out. The kicker is it was all done outside with a makeshift operation table. She had all the stuff there (numbing agents, sterile instruments, ect) and was very careful making sure the snake was as comfortable as possible during the operation. I will never forget the whole ordeal myself as it was an incredible learning experience. I was shocked to hear she bred again the following year and had good eggs. I did not think it was going to be possible after cutting her open like that. Guess it shows how durable they can be at times. Oh, and Gerard, the duct tape thing blew me away too!! Mind you we tore them into little strips and lightly pulled things together in conjunction with the "super glue". My buddy said she shed it right off no problem!

Joe

Joe

Cool, when we had to put the gorillas under for any procedure we did it all out side. It was pretty crazy, I will have to find the pictures to show you. It nice to get to work with professional people, isn't it?
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Gerard

"Ten minutes to wapner..."

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Yes it is!! You would know better then me too, having worked at a zoo along with your wife. What a great experience that must have been.  

for the replies everyone. I am still not sure what the best course of action is. I am hearing everything from she might absorb the eggs if they are not fertilized, to breed her or I'm taking a huge risk.

Does every one breed their females every year?? What about folks that need to take a year or two off, or just want a pet? Are they all taking them to the vet and having them fixed?

Thanks.
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.1 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
3.6 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
2.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 20??

>>for the replies everyone. I am still not sure what the best course of action is. I am hearing everything from she might absorb the eggs if they are not fertilized, to breed her or I'm taking a huge risk.
>>
>>Does every one breed their females every year?? What about folks that need to take a year or two off, or just want a pet? Are they all taking them to the vet and having them fixed?

I think it has to do with geography but when I don't want to breed females I just don't brumate them......this is easier to achieve than brumation itself in my location.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I didn't brumate my pair of alternas with the intention of breeding this year, but because they stopped eating in October.

I think it was Rainer who talked about continuing to provide heat during the winter months, allowing the snakes to decide what temps they want, and offering a meal occasionally. I don't know if that would make a difference in whether a female ovulates or not though.
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Kent

1.1 Hypo (het lavender, striped) corn snakes, 2010
1.1 Gray-banded king snakes, blairs phase, 2008
3.6 Gray-banded king snakes, 2011
2.1 Oregon rubber boas, w/c 20??

>>I didn't brumate my pair of alternas with the intention of breeding this year, but because they stopped eating in October.
>>
>>I think it was Rainer who talked about continuing to provide heat during the winter months, allowing the snakes to decide what temps they want, and offering a meal occasionally. I don't know if that would make a difference in whether a female ovulates or not though.
>>-----

Again....It all has to do with geography....

NONE of my animals "shut down" for the winter.
It is 75F to 80F here in the winter....It rarely freezes.....And has only snowed once in 150 years........
And my kings don't have that "instinct" to shut down like others have noticed.

I have to force them to cool down, conserve and brumate.

My snake room temps are constant year round. (70F to 72F)
If I don't want to breed an animal it doesn't go into the brumation chamber where it is 50F and dark.

Here, if they are not brumated they don't produce eggs.
That may be different for you, your location and your set up though.....

If yours are producing eggs then they have been brumated enough....whether purposely or accidental.......I bet you get cooler temps than we do in South Texas.

Just my experience.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...