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22 slugs, 4 still born, and 6 live.

2 still normals and 2 still patternless

2 live normals and 4 live patternless
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how do i post pics directly to the thread?

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it was my double dose hypo harlequin to the original patternless dam from brendan magee

Beautiful animals!
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Brandon Nixon

Not threadjacking. Just for comparison.

Put me on the list to buy one when you make some available, Jonathan. Can't wait to see if our critters are compatible.

I'm wondering if the Sterlings are actually Harlequin line animals that were just sold off as normals?

Probably no way to prove it one way or another, but they're remarkably similar!

Regardless, to be a part of either project would be an honor!

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com Site received a complete makeover! Check it out!

JB you read my mind... I also wonder if the sterlings are harly animals.
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Richard Ceniceros

the two dams look like mirror images of each other so its possible. or maybe imports from the same area? I believe Brendan originally received her as an import.

>>the two dams look like mirror images of each other so its possible. or maybe imports from the same area? I believe Brendan originally received her as an import.

Not an import either. The mother came from a gentlemen out of florida who was getting out of the boa business.

A Cut Above
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Honestly Jb , in this case I'm speculating but I agree with Doctor Booth I think the best bet is that the fem had Partho litter.

I certain the Harle Boas have much if anything to do with this genetic anomaly.

Your question is still valid though, those animals that produced the Sterling Boas may just be descendants
of this large Fem that produced the "Harle" patternless Boas.

I'm not certain but I read some info in my research yesterday that hinted at the fact that this Fem
has produced at least two litters since the "Harle" Patternless litter of 2005.

She produced no patternless Boas since that 2005 litter until this
recent litter of Jr Bannister we see here on KS Forum.

It could be that her offspring (50% of her offspring in any given litter ) carry the trait.

Ken who produced Sterling Boas possibly purchased two nice
pastels that were siblings from this large Matriarch
of the Patternless 2005 Harle litter.
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

I need to clarify , my key board is sticky so some errors continually occur while typing . . . . .
hard to catch them all when I'm excited about getting an answer posted.

Ok I'm beginning to doubt if the "Harle" Boas have little if anything to do with the Patternless Boas.

I Believe this large fem Matriarch of the 2005 Patternless "Harle" litter is the sole genetic key in the production of the Patternless Boas.

If she produced two litters since 2005 Ken of Sterling Boa Fame.

Ken Could have purchased two Pastel type Boas that happened to be siblings from one of those later litters that this large Matriarch of Patternless Boas
produced in either of the two later litters she produced that did not see any Patternless babies in those later litters.

The gene is most likely recessive and therefore hidden within her and her offspring until those offspring are paired together or unless she produces Partho litters as I believe she did this week and possibly even in 2005.

Just me making a large piece of puzzle come together through great speculation . . . . . .

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Well where did Ken acquire the parents to the sterling boas.
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Richard Ceniceros

Lar, I know exactly who produced the parents of the Sterlings and when they were produced. I have photos of the "grandparents" and the litter-mates and I can tell you with certainty they are not related to the Magee animals.

This certainly could be the same gene. Time will tell. But as Jeff Ronne's recent awesome post mentioned, subtle differences are often important, and there are several subtle visual differences between the Magee patternless (Quicksilver) and the Sterlings. May be nothing. May be similar to Sharp vs. Kahl; totally different gene with a fairly similar phenotype.

Ken

>>Ken who produced Sterling Boas possibly purchased two nice
>>pastels that were siblings from this large Matriarch
>>of the Patternless 2005 Harle litter.

Just talked to Brendan himself to see if this was a possibility and he informed us that Matt and I have every living animal from the litters the mother of the patternless had that didnt produce patternless. Either way, we still think these traits are compatible.

A Cut Above
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The Mother of the Patternless "Harlequins" is not a Harlequin bloodline animal. At least that is what we have been told. She was bred by one when she produced the litter of patternless babies. Within that litter there were 5 patternless. ALL FEMALES. None ever reproduced and none are still alive. I am personally only aware of two non-patternless littermates that were ever sold from that litter and they were both females.

So. If the patternless babies the first time, and or possibly this time, are the product of parthenogenesis, they never were Harlequin anything after all.

I had not ever heard that she had been bred since that litter back with the patternless animals. If she did, assuming the patternless trait is genetic, and most likely a simple recessive, all those babies would be 50% possible hets. It would be nice to have one or more of them...
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Hey Jeff. I just wanted to mention a couple things to you about your post about the mother of the patternless babies. I talked to Brendan yesterday and he in fact never sexed the 2005 litter of patternless animals so I was curious how you came to find out that they were all female. Ty Hege bought two reverse striped normal animals that were supposed to be a pair but they both turned out to be females. As far as the patternless animals from Brendan, the only one that was sexed was the one that lived until last year.

On another note, the mother of the patternless was bred again after the patternless litter by a double dose orange tail hypo harlequin male. Out of that litter we have the following...

1.0 OT Hypo Harlequin 50% PH Patternless
2.0 Normal Harlequins 50% PH Patternless

and for females we have

0.2 OT Hypo Harlequins 50% PH Patternless
0.2 Reverse striped normal Harlequins 50% PH Patternless
0.3 Normal Harlequins 50% PH Patternless

All of which are 2008 animals. Just wanted to let you know that there are normal and hypo harlequins that are PH Patternless and we have all the surviving animals from that litter.

A Cut Above
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That someone who's done so much in the interest of sharing information with the boa "community",now finds it necessary to post speculation based on inaccurate,second hand information,or a failing memory as "fact"...is it too big of a stretch to just say "we don't yet know the answer,but in the meantime,CONGRATULATIONS !!! on producing some truly remarkable boas!!!" let the guy enjoy a significant accomplishment,and leave the psychic predictions for the Enquirer...The truth is out there,the search can be rewarding...try it!!!
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Captive born excellence through applied genetic theory...and,astute observations based on a keen sense of the sometimes painfully obvious

Not sure why the hostility we are happy for Mr Bannister having his litter, but being friends with the originators of the harlequin gene and the first one to produce patternless harlequins, I was just trying to share tried and true info.

Also Jeff said it woud be cool if there were at least some hypo ph patternless and ph patternless harlequins out there. I was just letting him know that we have both of which not to mention all the surviving animals from her litter without patternless.

Not sure why all the hostility to us, care to elaborate?

A Cut Above
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My reply was directed toward Jeff's post, which contained zero firsthand information. I have no reason to feel any "hostility",and I apologize if anyone mistakenly read any into my reply.I look forward to your continued success with the Harlequin project,and I felt that your reply was an appropriate,and factual response.I also look forward to the results of the partho theoy. I know someone who has a great recipe for "crow".
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Captive born excellence through applied genetic theory...and,astute observations based on a keen sense of the sometimes painfully obvious

Rainshadow . . . Tim correct . . . . . . I used to talk to Brendon back in '03 . . .'04 & '05 quite a bit &
purchased A Salmon Harle from him in '04 I think it was maybe '03.

Never had the opportunity to meet or correspond with you . . . .

You have a recipe for crow ? . . . . How does it taste ?

I might need to borrow the recipe

I wish you would have continued the great work you accomplished with your Harle line and brought it along further.

I had a boat load of images from you guys but lost the Hard Drive they were on,
( It was before I understood how to back back files up)

I wish I still had all of those beautiful images from you and Brendan . . . .

Hope all is well with you take care . . .

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

>>Put me on the list to buy one when you make some available, Jonathan. Can't wait to see if our critters are compatible.

I would bet the farm on it that they are compatible.

A Cut Above
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very cool..I'm not surprized with the harly gene,Congrats

What was the pairing for that litter awesome looking babies

I'm sorry about the little guys that didn't survive, that's always tough. Those are some beautiful pattern less boas though. Congratulations!

Awesome! Do you also have pics of Dad? I love this!!
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ajfreptiles.com

im kinda playing catch up to the patternless projects. is this in any way shape related to the other coined "sterling?"

thats all just 1 question.

those 4 survivors was worth the issues of having lost those others. they are superb..

not to my knowledge they aren't related but they look so similar i would imagine it is the same gene.

Those things have a strong resemblance to the sterlings.
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Paul Rothenbach
Rothenbach@live.com">PRothenbach@live.com

Quick question about the breeding. You mentioned these were from a patternless dam, and the mother of this litter definitely has a pattern. Did you mean that the grandmother was a patternless animal? Are the sire and dam of this litter related in any way (siblings, half siblings, etc.).

Congrats again on an awesome litter, thanks for posting pics.

Anthony

this dam produced patternless boas for brendan magee back in 04 i think it was, and as far as i know the male and dam are unrelated besides both coming from Brendan Magee.

I see it's the Magee Dam . . . . congrats on your litter hopefully you can coax the survivors to live
and metabolize all the yolk bellies.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

>>this dam produced patternless boas for brendan magee back in 04 i think it was, and as far as i know the male and dam are unrelated besides both coming from Brendan Magee.

Sire and Dam of the 2005 litter of patternless were completely unrelated. the mother is believed to a peruvian possibly and the father was an F3 normal harlequin. We have pics of the sire to the 2005 litter of patternless.

A Cut Above
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I'm Glad she proved out for your Jonathan! I'm sorry the results weren't better, but at at least you know now and can plan accordingly!

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Brandon Weik

That's crazy!!! I need to see the tails better!!

Make sure you know what to do with all of that yolk!!

Good luck!!!

Ill take some better pics after i get off work if i can. the very tip of the tail has some black on it like tail saddles, but its only one or two. One if i remember correctly is solid black almost.

Great litter. Looks a little premature due to the massive yolk sacs still attached. Make sure you keep them warm and humid.

The big issue here is this. Are both parents carrying the patternless gene? If so, why have we not seen more patternless produced from Harlequin to Harlequin. If not, what sex are the offspring. If the patternless are female, this might hint towards parthenogenesis. Not bad, but no entirely good as many parthenogenetic babies do not thrive.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

Either way I'm happy, and you do bring up some very good questions. I'll have to wait alittle while before i sex them of course. And I am by no means a subject matter expert, this is only my second litter ever. As far as the Harlequin to Harlequin breedings IDK I haven't seen any.

Congratulations, so it is genetic after all...

Who's buying the keg?
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www.NewWorldDragons.com,
NewWorldDragons@NewWorldDragons.com

Those are pretty Killer Looking babies!

Congrats!

Should be very interesting to see how these genetics play out in the long run!

Thanks for sharing!

Ulysses

Congratulations Jonathan! I know how exciting it is to find something like this in the goo. You must be flying right now.

Take good care of those yolky ones.

I love the name quicksilver. Awesome stuff. They look similar to the Sterlings with two differences; the Sterlings were born a little darker and the the sterling tales where black from vent to tip of tale.

Dr. Booth's parthenogenesis question is fascinating. With that daddy, we should be looking at some hypos, even in such a small batch. Have you sexed them yet?

Congrats again! Via la Boalution!

That's tails, not tales.