Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok so I am going to be getting a ceramic heat emitter for my albino Cali king (Patrick Swayze is his name haha). and I want to monitor the temp with a thermostat, but I am not sure where to place the probe on it so it gets an accurate temp and will work correctly, any suggestions?

ideally the probe should placed directly under wherever the heat emmitter is aimed. heat emmitters can create very dry conditions just like heat lamps. imho UTH(under tank heat mats or tape) are better for kings.
temp.guns are good for checking thermostats or rheostats, i also run dual thermostats or rheostats inline with one another in case on fails.
good luck

,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Kingsnakes do 2 things. They seek the perfect temperature and the perfect humidity.

Did you know that snakes rarely drink in nature?

Did you know that they constantly seek a way to conserve enerygy and avoid dehydration?

Did you know it is not natural for a captive snake to rely on drinking everyday and providing a water bowl is not neccessary IF they are given choices on humidity? Matter of fact they rarely drink if one can provide humidity options.

Do you know why snakes curl up in tight moist places?

Did you know that most captive kings are in a conStant dehydrated condition in captivity? (However, doesn't mean they can't survive like this for years. But how cruel!)

Now do you really still think it's a good idea to use a ceramic heating element in a small box to dry everything out?

Do you beleive because pet shops sell them,and that they come in neat bubble wrap packages with pics of a snake on it they must know what a snake needs? Do you really beleive all that?

Get and undertank heat pad. THAT'S ALL THE SNAKE NEEDS TO CHOOSE WARM AND CHOOSE COLD.
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"Common sense would be to smash it just a tad before putting it into the pump cylinder."
DMONG

"Exactly. Could not have said it better, myself.'
Billy (DISCERN)

www.Bluerosy.com

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ok. well then my next question is this. i am getting a heat pad from bigappleherp.com the intelliheat pad. it can go inside the cage. which is where ill put it under the aspen with a thermostat. but to avoid the snake going under it can i tape it down with something? i have heard you have to be careful what you use so your snake doesnt get messed up from them tape. what hsould i use?

im adding this to my last message. if i got a spray adhesive and put that on the back and stuck it in the cage. would that be ok or would it produce fumes that would harm my snake?

Those intellitemp heat pads look cheap to me although i've only seen the photos. I would personally go with one of the zoomed UTH heat pads which Big Apple also sells. The zoomed UTH have been around for quite a while and have a good track record.
As was mentioned I would place it under the cage and definatly avoid using any tape or adhesive inside the cage.
As has already been stated here, no matter where you place a probe and no matter what a thermostat reads you will have no idea what the temps really are over it in the cage unless you check it directly with an accurate temp gauge. Preferably a temp gun. If you only have a snake or two and can't afford a temp gun you can get a cheap white plastic thermometer from Lowes. If you go that route I would make sure they have several and make sure the one you buy is one that's reads the same as several others. If you look there are always one or two of those that will be way off. I use a temp gun in general but have a couple of the cheap ones that I use on occaison although I check them from time to time with my temp gun to be sure they are still reading accurately.
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Randy Whittington

Just to be clear, if you do use a intellitemp heat pad I would also use it under the tank.
The zoo med repti-therm heaters come with a sticky back so you can attach them to the bottom of your cage easily.
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Randy Whittington

No heat pad goes inside the tank under the substrate. They all go undereath or outside of tghe encloser..can you imagine if water is spilled on the cord???

You don't really need a stick-um one to work. I prefer the ones that don't.
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"Common sense would be to smash it just a tad before putting it into the pump cylinder."
DMONG

"Exactly. Could not have said it better, myself.'
Billy (DISCERN)

www.Bluerosy.com

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Sorry i didn't mean to put this under Randys post.

One more thing. You DON"T want to heat the whole cage. That defeats the purpose of a heat pad and letting the snake choose its temps.

My snakes sit in a cold room during winter and they prefer to sit at 5-60F. When they eat they move over to the hot side to digest. When they are done, they move back to the cold .

If you heat up the whole cage then you will have problems . They need to escape the heat and that's why heat pad is the best solution.

So if using the heat pad...(in a cooler room!!!)and it is not in a room that is above 80F. You don't need a temp gun because the hot area can get very hot . Just feeel the area and you can tell if it is warm. The snake will do the rest. This is what they do in the wild. They heat up for a while in the sun. Move to a cooloer place. Look for humidity ect.

Give the snake as wide a range of temp choices in the cage as possible. That is why a cool room or airconditioned room is good in the summer. If the room gets to hot. Then you need to turn off the heat pad anyway.

Also if you do keep your snake overly warm and they can't escape (get down below 70F) then you need to feed them a lot because the warm temps will make them burns calories like crazy. So feer food every 4 days in the situation.

PS

It is really hard to help some people without knowing all the facts of the set up. That includes where you are located geographcally? do you keep your snakes in a garage? airconditioned room? if so what room temps?...so many scenarios without all the info we can't always give the right advice unless we can see what EXACTLY you are doing. I only say this becasue of your question on whether to put the heat pad inside the cage...which to me says you have not really thought things through enough. You can spill a water bowl on the electric...so use some common sense and maybe give me a shout in PM so we can email.
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"Common sense would be to smash it just a tad before putting it into the pump cylinder."
DMONG

"Exactly. Could not have said it better, myself.'
Billy (DISCERN)

www.Bluerosy.com

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While I sort of get what your saying Rainer I wouldn't personally ever suggest someone not be aware of the temp directly above a heat pad. I would think you have seen as well as me that some of them, if directly touching the bottom of a glass tank can reach temps close to 150 degrees if not on some type of temp control device.
In a small enclosure the cool side can still get rather warm unless your place is well below 70 degrees if the heat pads not dialed down some.
Also for safety reasons I wouldn't want a heat pad getting that much hotter than needed. That could lead to quicker break down of the heat pad and a fire hazard. If you don't know what your temps are over your heat source you sure as heck don't know what they are on the cool side. That was why I mentioned the cheap thermometer in case he didn't want to or couldn't spend the money on a temp gun. They might not be real accurate but at least he would have an idea what kind of temps he had.

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Randy Whittington

Touching the hot surface and knowing the room temps will work.

If the room temps are cool enough and encloser large enough. You will have your temp gradient.

And yes heat pads can catch on fire. Especially if placed inside of a tank. Also if the heat is placed between the glass and table made of wood. Common sense rules here.

Personally I don't trust all heat pads. Some cheaper ones will combust. But I don't worry about that as all my snakes are in racks with heat tape. Never had a fire with them, Yet!
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www.Bluerosy.com

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Actually, those Intellitemp heat mats are awesome. They come in useful sizes, they are flexible and can bend around ridges or the end of a box, the entire surface heats up (not just the center), and they are durable as all heck. They are also grounded and sealed. I think he is making a great choice. I have four, and they work well as an undertank pad.

You can tape them to the underside of the tank with aluminum tape, gorilla tape, etc.

Mark I was wondering how many years you have been using that brand of heat pads. Have they been in use a few years yet, say like at least 4? When they have been in use for a while is when you tend to find out how well they work, are made and how safe.
When I used a similar heat pad a few years back that was soft like that, it started sagging in the middle after a while even though taped well around the edges with foil tape. It didn't heat evenly after it started sagging in the middle so I had to throw it away. I also used a cheaper brand of the stiff kind that you tape around the edges and it started coming apart after being in use for about 3 years.
If you wrap those intellitemp pads around a 90 degree angle such as a box, aquarium or cage edge I would worry it might cause a break down point after being is use for an extended period of time.
I don't mean to argue but these are concerns I have from past experience.
I have t-rex cobra and zoomed repti-therm heat mats that I've used off and on for over 10 years with no problems which is why I remommend them.

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Randy Whittington

I appreciate the info. Mine are only about 2 years old, so I don't have any valuable data for how long lasting they are. If they are anything like human heat pads, they won't last long if on all the time. 2 yrs so far all good.

I agree with you that heat mats like Ultratherm, Cobra, etc will last a very long time if not damaged. I have some that are likely 10 yrs old too and are still perfect.

Back to the Intellitemp - flexing them does not stress the heating element, as long as the bend radius is reasonable - in other words not a sharp bend. Mine are bent from vertical to horizontal, but a gentle bend, I like that property.

ZooMed pads use nichrome wire. Nichrome elements can break down over time, I believe moreso than carbon element like Flexwatt, Ultratherm, etc. Well, everything breaks down in time, but I believe nichrome usually goes sooner than carbon if constantly exposed to air. But "in time" may be a long time, like over a decade or more of constant use. I can't remember if Intellitemp is nichrome or carbon.

Just wanted to say that most folks use heat pads, and we all know kings do well that way.

I have used CHEs for all sorts of reptiles, and I can also say that CHEs are very effective. They do dry out the air, but the cage floor under the snake stays humid. With heat pads, the cage floor under the snake dries out, but the air stays more humid. So both devices dry out something. With CHE, use a nice substrate like coir fiber that you can mist, or else use a dry substrate and have a plastic box in there with the damp substrate. The CHE heat will penetrate the box quite well (cut a big hole in the lid) and make for a nice humid hide that does not dry out from below (but will from above).

Heat dries out stuff, whether above or below. It is how you setup the hide that determines how quickly moisture is lost. With rack systems, belly heat is better because the box size is limited and the rack holds in humidity well. But a big open cage can use heat from above or below.

The best snake heater I have seen is warm water pumped thru PVC pipe run in the cage under the substrate. I found some nice pipe heat cable for PVC pipe and a pump, so it is doable - it is the pump constantly running and making noise that deters me from actually doing it.

So that being said. Is a CHE (regulated at 82 degrees ambient) and a heat pad (regulated at 87 degrees basking) over kill? I want my snake to live a long happy life ha.

I really think you can do one or the other. A 20 gal tank is not large enough to warrant both. And, this is a kingsnake, not a boa constrictor. Kings are very good at warming up with a fairly small heated area (small mass of animal = small heating area does the job), so you do not need multiple heaters. You also do not need to worry about ambient temps unless they are really cold.