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I'm in the design phase of doing a completely new build out of my room. A prime component of two of the display cages (36 X 24 X24) will be a large display top area and two separate under floor enclosures. I should be able to create multiple hides and conditions in such a cage. Looking for comment on keeping multiple snake species in these cages. My initital thoughts are to put eastern kings and LA pines in them, males in one cage and the females in the other and allowing periodic same species visitation.

Any thoughts?
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

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i think the e.kings will be happy, the pines... not so much
and imho a 36inch cage isnt really big enough for pituophis esp.pines they are roamers. my northerns are in 6ft. cages
good luck

,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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interesting combination
some random unorganized thoughts...

- are the easterns of the size that they can constrict the pines?
- will you have a burrowing substrate? juvie pines will like it, adults will just smash through it.
-expected temp gradient? pines might like it a little cooler than the kings?

if the ruthveni have a good hide box or burrow that they like, they will spend a lot of time in there. ruthveni that are constantly cruising are too hot, hungry, annoyed for some reason or looking to mate.

36x24 will be OK for ruthveni, might be a tight fit with a big breeding pair. i had mine in boaphiles 48x24x12. they didn't use the extra height, but you might want it to see them.

where are they coming from?

sounds like a fun project keep us informed

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The kings are on the smaller side but would definitively require watching during the initial introductions. I was thinking of ruthvens because they seem to be the smaller of the pines. I kept large northerns in 4' neodeshes and they had ample room.

Of the 24" height at least 7" will be eaten up by the sub floor compartment. Allow a rim to hold back bedding and support along the top and you've lost another 4 or so inches leaving ~ 14" of visibility. Much narrower and I don't think you'd get a good view of the animals when they're about.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

I wouldn't keep any other snakes with potential snake eaters. Even if they are too big to swallow, they could constrict and kill them.

Also, Eastern Kings and LA Pines don't overlap in range so it would be a very artificial environment. At least if you had easterns and Northern or Southern Pines it would make sense.

Why not Speckled Kings and LA Pines? They at least overlap in range although their habitat preferences really don't.

I read some research many years ago (I have no idea where) that demonstrated that smelling the odor of Lampropeltis musk made other snakes (I think it was rattlesnakes) behave in a defensive manner.
Do you want your pinesnakes to be under that kind of stress (assuming it is stressful)?

It would be much better to put your male and female Eastern Kings together in one display and your LA Pines the another. Your kings might still eat each other anyway.

Remember, most snakes are not social animals and these animals tend to avoid each other in the wild where possible. Housing them together will probably increase their overall stress levels. Husbandry decisions should be made based on what is in the best interest of the animals, not what would be interesting to us.

Anyway, that's just my opinion on the issue. YMMV.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Good points Chris. Kind of makes me feel stupid for asking! LOL

Primarily thinking that the 3 X 2 footprint of the cage wasn't big enough to accommodate a pair of pines. Thought perhaps if I could separate the kings I could spread the pines over two cages.

Might just have to do without the pines or get a smaller form of pit like annectens.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

WWW.TDSNAKES.BLOGSPOT.COM

I have a six compartment multi unit enclosure. The top half has two doors and houses two snakes per door. Bottom half has one snake per door. There was two snakes in the top left side one on top and one on the bottom. Both snakes were males.. they spent most of there time digging trying to find out how to get to one another. They could smell each other throught the cracks. One night after feeding my male thayeri in the bottom half of the enclosure, I locked the bottom portion and not the top. The male getula in the top half had just enough room to wedge himself inside and get intothe thayeris cage. Came home to an ugly sight.... he killed him. There is now sonoran gophers where they usedd to be... they don't seem to be to stressed about being there. They are male and female though. I would keep this in mind when u build this thing. My male kings seemed to be pretty stressed being that close tto other snakes. The results were fatal in this case.

Unfortunate incident but a good example for this subject.

I have read this description many times but am still not sure what is the plan. So please forgive me if I've misunderstood.

First off, I would not have lampropeltis and pituophis that close together. Once I accidentally put one of my Pacific gopher snakes in a feeding container that was not hers, but belonged to a mountain king, and she would not eat until I discovered my error and put her in her own feeding container. The smell of the king seemed to bother her. And I would for sure not allow the two species to be in actual physical contact. They have a very sensitive olfactory capability and can smell each other from across a rooom, not to mention in adjoining cages.

Secondly, the pits would need bigger cages. What I would do is just choose the kings, and put one male and maybe two females in your setup. Build another set up for the pits but with bigger cages, and with the same one male to two females max.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.