Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So my hobby Hondo seems to have settled in nicely. He doesn't bite me anymore when I pick him up. Now if I could get him to stop musking.

Anyway, most places I've read have said not to handle your snake for more than 20 min at a time. I've been keeping the small guy to 10-12 min sessions, figuring over time I'll reach up to 20 minutes.

The question is, how much recovery time is needed between holding? I've been doing it once a day (minus 48hrs after a feed).

Thanks.

In my opinion it is best to let hatchling and juvenile milksnakes stay well-hidden and secluded for the better part of their first year, which is basically how they are naturally "hard-wired" and just be allowed to be themselves (nervous) until they get a good bit larger. Constantly handling most young milks only seems to stress them out un-necessarily. When they start getting around a year old, they start developing enough size to where they don't feel so insanely threatened and stop biting and musking as well. Usually the biting stops first, then the musking. Milks are very different than say boas, cornsnakes, kingsnakes and many other colubrids. Just letting them grow enough first allows them to be less nervous and more tolerant of handling.

If you still feel the need to hold them, I would only do it maybe once or twice a week, and maybe 5-10 minutes at a time until they become larger and less nervous and less "thrashy". What "seems" to be them calming way down after madly thrashing from side to side is probably just them giving in to fatigue and their muscles building up with lactic acid. Some do calm down sooner than others, but most of them become pretty manageable in time. Some get really easy-going when they are larger and older, while even some adults seem to stay nervous and cranky, it really depends on the individual snake. It will happen with yours too, just let it happen gradually over some time, and don't force the issue too much.

After many years of owning and raising countless milksnakes, I have found that this seems to work out much better for the snakes overall general well-being..

cheers, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

When they start getting around a year old, they start developing enough size to where they don't feel so insanely threatened and stop biting and musking as well.

He was supposedly hatched in September and my best estimate to length is 18" How big is big enough?

He doesn't thrash widly when I pick him up, he squirms a bit but then after less than a minute he's active and crawling around my hand.

Okay, it sound like he is starting to get around the size and age they generally become a bit more tolerant of handling then. It is usually around that size or better that they gradually start becoming better about.

Good luck with the little guy. I'd still probably limit the handling to maybe a couple times a week, and it will get better as time goes by and the snake gets more used to you. It really depends on the individual snake and how well they acclimate to being out and handled. Yours seems pretty typical and par for the course with handling.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Good to know. Thank you for the info.

I actually just held him after posting the first message. No musking or anything. I didn't startle him, just casually but deliberately picked him up. His tail wiggled a bit but he calmed down in less than 10 seconds.

With the feeding schedule, he probably only gets held 3-4 times a week.

Again, thanks for the info. The hondo is quite a bit different from the other snakes I've kept.

Sure thing. It does sound like yours will become quite manageable before others might. I have noticed over the years that almost miraculously that one day even some extremely nervous specimen's would become almost entirely different animals altogether and were nothing at all like I remembered them being..LOL! It always seems to be an "individual" thing. Some are absolute sweethearts almost from the very beginning, and some stay pretty darn nervous even into adulthood..LOL!.

Sounds like yours will do very well as it matures..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Very well put Doug, I have noticed the same thing too. Also not only is it individual expressions but between sub species too. I noticed L.t.campbelli usually don't calm down til year 2 and those L.t.blanchardi I don't think ever calm down.Hahaha!

The calmest of milk species that I have had the chance to work with have been L.t.sinaloae, they seem to be really calm even before the first year sometimes right out of the egg. Again, to the OP I agree with everything Doug has said time and patience is key and usually they will calm down by their 3rd year of life.
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Whether one year old or 5 years old I've yet to see a calm pueblan lol! Each snake is different, that's how I always look at it, I always give my snakes chances to be held, some don't mind it and some hate it more than anything...
I have 2 adult female annulata that are extremely jumpy and fiesty, those never get held, they don't like being touched and I don't think they'll change. Then I have a handful of other annulata that don't mind being held for any amount of time.

As a general rule with milk snakes I don't even try to hold them while they're young because I just assume they're not gonna like it. Feed them all the time, raise them up like they're your kids and maybe they'll be nice to you lol.

This is as close as I get to young milk snakes.....

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www.kingpinreptiles.com

"This is as close as I get to young milk snakes"

Yep,...that's pretty much how I treat the very young ones too Mike...

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

"and those L.t.blanchardi I don't think ever calm down"

That does seem to pretty much be the case with those guys, doesn't it?..LOL!. My 2010's are still like wound-up nervous little springs!

But hey, I don't mind too much, I just regard it as another part of their uniqueness...

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

I think something else to keep in mind is that IMO handling young milks too much (or at all) can cause feeding problems for said reasons. I know that hatchling LTT will stress out and become almost impossible to get eating. My hondos as hatchlings would gack if I tried holding them. Both my puebs and hondos and calm as can be as adults. I agree, let them be as youngsters and most will grow out of it when they get rid of the little man complex.

Joe

"I think something else to keep in mind is that IMO handling young milks too much (or at all) can cause feeding problems"

Yep!,...I TOTALLY agree with that Joe. There are plenty of hatchling and juvenile milks that stress-out in a big way and won't want to feed at all if they are handled. I'm sure you also can also read the one's that you very much DON'T want to handle, just like I can..LOL!. Letting them just be themselves and feed regularly (if they even will) is FAR more important than attempting to get them used to any handling at that age. Many novices/newbies make this mistake when they first acquire a young milksnake as a "pet" without really knowing about what makes them "tick" and how they naturally behave beforehand.

First things first I always say, and making them as stress free as possible so they will carry on normally and feed is definitely of paramount importance over anything else..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Speaking of stress. I had to move ALL my snake cages out of my snake room so the "Radon man" can install his gagets. I can already smell the regurgitations!!!! Just moving their cages to different light, people walking around, ect. caused several to cough it up. First gurges this year for me. Damn.

Joe

Geez!,...that sucks Joe. I'm sure you will get them settled down and back to normal soon.

You mean you aren't going to IMMEDIATELY attempt to feed them again the next day after a regurge??........kidding of course!..

As you already know, that is yet another HUGE mistake many newbies think of doing is trying to get another meal in their stomachs when in fact there is NO CHANCE of them digesting it successfully dute to all of the lost stomach acid, enzymes, electrolytes and good gut bacteria after such an episode. People need to understand that this takes quite a few days to naturally replenish before attempting to feed smaller than normal meals once again.

Anyway, I'm very sure you will get them right back to how they were before they were moved and stressed, Joe..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

Thanks Doug. Yeah, you know some nutribac and a two-three week waiting period are in order. It is my fault however, since I knew the install was coming last week. I should have not fed a single snake until all this crap was done. We all make mistakes, but this was a no brainer!!!! You know the getula don't easily give food back, but mt kings are not made the same. Wish they were!

Joe

HAHAA!!,....yeah man, I can DEFINITELY relate very well to doing certain things regarding our snakes that I had a strong feeling I probably shouldn't have done...Sometimes we can cheat the odds a bit with not so good judgements, and other times it slaps us in the head telling us we should have freakin' KNOWN better...

ps, I think everyone can relate to doing things they probably shouldn't have done. The people that keep repeating them are the jerks though, not the people that learn from the mistakes they have made. I know you won't be doing that very same thing anytime soon..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"

lol. Thanks Doug for the cheerup on my screwup. Yes, you can get your house I will NEVER do that again.

From tonight:
Wife: "You have a drinking problem" (me standing with empty capt. morgan bottle)
Me: "Honey, if your car was out of gasoline you would have a gasoline problem, so yes I agree with you, my bottle is empty so I do have a problem. That is why I am going to the store to fix it!!!"

Joe

LOL!!,.....too funny!..

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

"some are just born to troll and roll"