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Question for Bluerosy

FR May 25, 2012 10:23 AM

Hi, I have a little question for you.

A friend of mine works at a local reptile shop and she bred a pair of albino Fla. kings, it was her first snake reproduction.

Much to her surprise, the eggs just hatched and there were four or so albinos and one normal.

I explained that I had that occur with albino Blackrats. Albinos from two different strains.

I have not heard that there were several albino strains with Fla. kings. and if so, how many.

Or if you could give a better explination of this event.

Thanks for your time. Best wishes

Replies (8)

GerardS May 25, 2012 11:57 AM

That is a good question, one I too would like to hear about. Were they t negative and t positive or all the same? I thought there was only one line, if any, that were true floridana. How many different lines of albino California's are there?
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Gerard

"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Bluerosy May 27, 2012 10:28 AM

Whew i am going to try and answer this but right now i am a bit shook up from a fellow long time herper and breeder who just passed away this morning.

Simple answer to the question is there are T pos lavender" albino Floridas that have cal king in them. So how many lavender cal kings are out there that during the late 80's and early 90's that were incompatiple?

I am assuming that what you meant by "albino" are the lavender albino or T pos albino Floridas. NOT the T neg (red eye) true amel. There is only one true line of T neg out there in the Floridas. With the lavenders there are 2 true lines and many MANY from cal king genes mixed in.

Around the late 80's and early 90's there were several Lavenders being sold as Lavenders Floridas that were 50% cal king. So that caused some confusion and devalued and polluted the true lines when they showed up in 1990. Some people will argue that these were never true Lavender albino Floridas because of the crosses being made just a couple years earlier.

What took place was that Florida residents started experimenting with crosses by brreding their cal kings into the Floridas they found in their backyards (so to speak). So there were lots of cal x Fl being produced and being sold at shows like the Tampa show. I saw lots of tables with these crosses and was able to get a good idea wha a back bred florida looked like. Some were 50/50 and some were a bit refined from back breeding to the Florida kings to wash out more of the Cal king look..

Originally there were two authentic T pos (lavender albino) and one T neg strain that are authenitic. There was only 2 authentic lavenders i know that were successfully reproduced and made avaliable. But even both of those lines have a messed up history because the breeders messed with crossed FL x Cal lavenders as well.

One line of true lavender (T pos)came from Lloyd Lemke and the other from Tim Ricks. These two lines were compatiple but looked different.

In 1993 time I spoke with Tim and it seems that his line was the real deal because nobody else had Floridas that looked like his. Plus he swore and explained how they came about. I paid attention to the other lines of amel florida and his looked like they were 100% pure.

I know that Lloyd had some of the mixed cal x Florida he sold when he purchased them from other breeders (Gulf coast)to resell. But he had the real deal as well which I saw in his collection in the mid 80's.

Also Tim Ricks was affiliated with Southern reptiles which created crosses of Floridas before the real ones came onto the scene.

So people will argue that all these lavenders are crosses. Some are and some arent. Unless one has a good history we'll never know except by the look...and that can be hard to tell.
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Observing them in a cage by themsleves with set temps and deciding when to feed is hardly natural or healthy for the snakes.

Bluerosy

You are doing what suits you. which is fine, but its not about the animal, its about you. Your requirements.

Frank Retes

www.Bluerosy.com

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varanid May 27, 2012 05:30 PM

Who passed away?

Sorry for the loss of your friend.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.

DMong May 27, 2012 11:12 AM

"I have not heard that there were several albino strains with Fla. kings. and if so, how many"

This would depend on which strains of lavender Cal. king were used to produce them. That's gotta be why there was one normal hatchling, because there was probably more than one crossed line of lavender Cal. king involved just as Bluerosy said.

If there ever really were any truly authentic lavender floridana back in the 80's and 90's, surely the vast majority of those would be a hodge-podge composite of all the other far more common Cal. king crossed bloodlines by now anyway. This is also why you see very solid looking interbands with no speckling on many of them as Nick Mesa has mentioned several times in the past.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com


"some are just born to troll and roll"

Bluerosy May 27, 2012 11:54 AM

This is also why you see very solid looking interbands with no speckling on many of them as Nick Mesa has mentioned several times in the past.

Not sure what you meant here..If you are talking about lavenders here(?) The lavender trait (in its visual form) does effect pattern as well. Much like the hypo does. Ever notice how hypos have no pattern. Yet if you breed one to a het hypo you get very normal speckled and high band count offspring. Then the hypos produced are no pattern and or stripes ect.

some recessive traits does effect the pattern in Floridas. Or at least the visual part that we can see.
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Observing them in a cage by themsleves with set temps and deciding when to feed is hardly natural or healthy for the snakes.

Bluerosy

You are doing what suits you. which is fine, but its not about the animal, its about you. Your requirements.

Frank Retes

www.Bluerosy.com

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DMong May 27, 2012 12:22 PM

Well, I'm not disputing that little to no speckling in itself is any solid evidence of them being Cal. king crosses, but there isn't any doubt that many are.

I do agree that certain recessive traits can affect patterning though.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com


"some are just born to troll and roll"

Bluerosy May 27, 2012 01:15 PM

yes, no doubt most are and got the trait from the Cal king. But today they are bred back so many times that the head shape , neck and overall body structure and other characteristics are Floridana. Sure they are some that show cal king traits. But there are some that look soooo floridana .
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Observing them in a cage by themsleves with set temps and deciding when to feed is hardly natural or healthy for the snakes.

Bluerosy

You are doing what suits you. which is fine, but its not about the animal, its about you. Your requirements.

Frank Retes

www.Bluerosy.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FR May 27, 2012 04:27 PM

I believe they were T negative, both parents, but I will look at them on Tuesday. Thanks

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