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Mesa Sand Kings

a153fish May 25, 2012 01:26 PM

These guys are beasts, and the male is really speckling up, and getting lighter. The female still holds that darker look so far.


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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Replies (20)

FR May 25, 2012 03:00 PM

nice kings, but this is about your words at the bottom.

I think the point is not about caution, but more about giving the caged animals some manner of a life.

I think as some point a keeper graduates from keeping reptiles SAFE and Healthy, to safe healthy and with some manner of life.

I and others know grew tried of the one snake in a box thing and as our experience level grew we became comfortable with our ability to keep snakes in groups.

Like everything, there is a learning curve, and once you learn groups, its much safer then single animals. Of course, you can make mistakes no matter how you keep them.

Introducing animals that are kept separate is always an adventure. I think I have lost more individuals that way over the years, then problems with animals always kept together.

best wishes

a153fish May 25, 2012 03:14 PM

We've had several experienced keepers here post bad experiences with groups, even long term groups. My problem is and always was, with blanket statements about how safe it is because they never seen it happen. Many of us have seen it happen, that is all. There is one who defends the group method, yet even He states on his web site that Kings should be housed separate, which I find quite funny. I believe that group snakes are at a higher risk of problems, especially when you feed them in groups unsupervised. Also infections can spread faster, and parasite loads can rise quicker if the cages are not kept spic and span, continuously.

By the way there is only One T- Negative albino Floridana, and as far as I know one line of Lavender albino. Well, there may be more than one line of Lavender, but they are compatable, where as the T-neg is not. You would get double hets if bred together.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

a153fish May 25, 2012 03:47 PM

I agree with much of what you said. Sometimes because I take the opposing view, some think I am against groups. Like my signature says, I do keep some in groups. It depends on many factors, like is the pair the only one I have? Is it easy to replace? If I am super excited about a project, I tend to baby them, to take every effort to ensure they survive, and breed. That means removing any risk, or at least lowering the risks as much as possible. Well, the same goes for a newbie who only has one pair of Cal Kings. To them, they are very special, and they want to do everything possible to keep them healthy and safe. I think many here who have huge collections think differently than the novice or intermediate keepers who come here for advice, and instruction.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

FR May 25, 2012 06:35 PM

I understand, but in all reality, more snakes escape and die, or have some common mistake then get cosumed by eachother.

Also groups are much safer when the individuals have been rasied together. Not just stuck together as adults, then say, oh they were a group. They were not, they were to individuals unknown to eachother placed in the same cage.

In nature, these animals hatched together and bond to eachothers scent, and encounter eachother their whole lifes.

As more and more genetic work is done the more we understand how related these populations are.

Raising them together develops real long lasting bonds.

There is a difference between being protective and overprotective. And this has nothing to do with caring or concern or any of that. I think if you did care, you would not want an animal to spend its life in solitary confinement.

That is not about you, just keepers in general.

I am old, been doing this for a long time, yet your approach is old fashion. I would think basic understanding about how to keep an animal healthy should be commonplace and you do not need to be overprotective.

Also, I am a bit concerned about you grouping easy to replace animals together and not HARD to replace animals are not. Those animals are the same. You are picking one over the over, by what VALUE??? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

a153fish May 25, 2012 07:19 PM

No doubt my choice of which ones are easy to replace are selfish reasons, but then taking an animal and putting it in a cage, any cage is selfish is it not? Still some things tried and true will always make sense. I am not sold on the "Bonding" theory, and that is where we part in our thinking. It will be pretty hard to prove Kingsnakes BOND. It would take radio transmitters tracking a group of snakes from hatcjing to breeding adults.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

joecop May 25, 2012 07:16 PM

Jorge, they are looking good man. Mine are the exact opposite. The females (2.2) are speckling up like crazy and the males are staying darker. My females are eating large mice already and the one female actually is eating frozen thawed chicks!!! They are the fastest growing kings I have ever seen. Crazy.

Joe

a153fish May 25, 2012 07:22 PM

Yeah Joe! These are the same age as the ones I posted earlier. These things are three feet, at onlt about 9 months old! They eat Rat fuzzies! Pretty big fuzzies at that. Larger than a mouse.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

foxturtle May 27, 2012 09:25 AM

I've got one from last year on full adult mice right now. Barely any speckling though.
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www.brooksi.com

a153fish May 27, 2012 03:18 PM

>>I've got one from last year on full adult mice right now. Barely any speckling though.
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>>www.brooksi.com

I think they will get better in their second year, and with some selective breeding they should be awesome!
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

lucy47 May 28, 2012 01:09 AM

Joe

Dude you can't drop that you have 2.2 Pinellas Kings and not show em off. That's just mean.

Lu

rosspadilla May 25, 2012 09:06 PM

>>These guys are beasts, and the male is really speckling up, and getting lighter. The female still holds that darker look so far.

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>>Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

>>

>>What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!

>>King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?

>> ~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

>>

Very cool. Little monsters in the making.
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a153fish May 27, 2012 03:22 PM

>>
>>Very cool. Little monsters in the making.

Yeah, Ross they should be monsters for aure!
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

lucy47 May 26, 2012 02:59 PM

Love those.

L

a153fish May 27, 2012 03:21 PM

>>Love those.
>>
>>
>>L
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

GerardS May 26, 2012 03:36 PM

keep those kings together, lol! Awesome snakes, the parents are incredible.
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Gerard

"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

a153fish May 27, 2012 03:20 PM

These are one pair that will not be going in the same cage, lol!!!
-----
Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

DMong May 27, 2012 03:34 PM

Very nice, Jorge.....

Those guys sure have grown since I saw them in their deli cups at the show!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com


"some are just born to troll and roll"

a153fish May 27, 2012 03:47 PM

Yeah, they are growing expoenetailly1 I do feed them hard, too, but they take all I give them. Others I have are not as willing to take in so much food.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Jlassiter May 29, 2012 02:04 AM

BTW Jorge...Those are some beautiful getula there!.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

a153fish May 30, 2012 05:54 PM

Nick deserves the credit! He caught the parents, and started this line. The parents are super nice, and I hope these turn out looking similar.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

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