Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is there no one here who will jump on Herman's bandwagon and corroborate his theory that you people outside of the U.S. agree with that amazing perception of how this war came to be, lol? In case you haven't read it, it's the one below this post. Come on Europeans and supporters alike! Help your fellow Anti-American out.

Just as none of the the anti-Americans contested Stoeckl's claim that the CIA brought the Twin Towers down, they are silent about his most recent fairy tale. I'm sure that Tommy Boy believes that Bush bombed Iraq just for the hell of it, like Stoeckl says. I doubt that Fred/"sobek" would have any problem with Stoeckl's anti-American theory. After all, it's anti-American. But don't hold your breath waiting for guys like these to acknowledge that the "emperor" (Stoeckl) "has no clothes". They have an agenda, and anything that isn't anti-Americam gets automatically filtered out.

Devin P.

I deny being anti American

you guys cant see further than your noses when it come to talking, its the same old childish name calling that comes up again. nothing new from you again.

steve

Okay, let's take another crack at being civil and stick to the issues at hand. No name calling or accusations. There are unanswered questions here by some of the other fella's here, so I'll ask you those questions in the hope that you will give us your input regarding these matters. First, Stoeckl never answered the questions regarding his posts on N. Korea. Perhaps you can help him out...

1) How does the leader of N. Korea compare to Saddam? Does he rape, torture, execute, gas etc. his own people?
2) In your opinion, is N.Korea a terrorist nation? Do they have training camps to teach terrorists how to blend in with Americans and teach them how to fly planes into buildings?
3) Stoeckl says we slaughtered the wrong pig. Do you agree and if so does that mean you condone Saddam's atrocities ?
4) Do you in fact agree that we "slaughtered the wrong pig"?
5) Do you in fact agree with Stoeckl's claims with regard to Stoeckl's rendition of how the war started as described in his post above? After all, you are included in his statement that the "people outside of the U.S. share this perception.
6) Stoeckl said that the war is "big business" for certain companies. I asked him to name them He didn't. Can you?
7) Stoeckl also claimed that we " helped to create new supporters of terrorism". I asked him to name those supporters or "groups". Again, he didn't. Can you?
8) He claims we made the world a more dangerous place. Do you agree and if so, how is it more dangerous and on what source of information do you base your answers?
9) You claimed that the U.S. was the reason for the UK's recession, lack of work, and alot of citizens losing their livelyhoods. Could you explain exactly how and why the U.S. is responsible for that?
10) You never gave a clear answer to my question. What would you consider the lesser of two evils? a) Bush lied about going to war(not my opinion), or b) Saddam stays in power and continues to terrorize his own people with the atrocities he and his sons enjoy performing?

I simply asked you these questions to give you a chance to engage in a conversation that directly pertains to the topics we covered here without the distraction of name calling or accusations. These are all unanswered questions and since you seem to genuinely want to be involved with discussions other than the usual jargon taking place here, I thought this a fitting way to enable you to tackle these issues. If you would, please respond by numbering your answers 1) through 10) so we can decipher and match your answers to each question. Thanks in advance for your reply. By the way, yo asked me what I do for a living and I answered in detail below. What do you do for a living?

Scotty, your post is excellent! But Steve hasn't "shown up" once to make a single valid point in this discussion. The questions you've posed get to the heart of the matter here. But the heart of the matter is what STEVEhas evaded for the past two months on this forum, because his anti-American mentality won't allow him to look at the reasons why America has done what it's done. Steve isn't the least bit interested in reasons, logic, justification, etc, etc, etc. The same pattern will continue: Steve accuses the US of something, we respond with reasonable explanations, and then he does what he does best (worst) : he accuses us of being rude. Don't expect anything from Steve other than ACCUSATIONS OF RUDENESS. What does Steve, the ungrateful anti-American have to say now?

Devin P.

PS Where's Tommy Boy now?

Please tell me one thing that I have accused the US of.

Yes the economy at the time of the first Iraqe war.

name another, if you dare, and listen to your childish words, just like a 15 year old who has lost his pocket money, you truely are something else.

steve

ps. I dont know the answers to all those questions, and If i dared try to answer, I know for a fact that it would only give you more reasons to be childish.

steve

Scotty and I figured that you'd skip his civil post and you'd respond to, what you consider, my "childish post. What does that say about you?

It's beautiful how youve run as fast as you can from every single one of Scotty's questions. You don't even have the courage to answer one!

Instead, you attempted to divert attention away from your own evasiveness by asking another one of your silly questions. By the way, you can answer that question yourself by going back through your own childish posts over the last two months.

Way to go Steve, you've reinforced your anti-American reputation. You have chickened out once again.

Devin P.

PS Show me one instance where I said that I'm anti-European?

1) How does the leader of N. Korea compare to Saddam? Does he rape, torture, execute, gas etc. his own people?

1)Don't know this answer.

2) In your opinion, is N.Korea a terrorist nation? Do they have training camps to teach terrorists how to blend in with Americans and teach them how to fly planes into buildings?

2) dont know this either

3) Stoeckl says we slaughtered the wrong pig. Do you agree and if so does that mean you condone Saddam's atrocities ?

3) sadam needed to be put out anyway, but I dont know if the way you did it was the best way.

4) Do you in fact agree that we "slaughtered the wrong pig"?
4) I cant comment on NK as I dont know much about this.

5) Do you in fact agree with Stoeckl's claims with regard to Stoeckl's rendition of how the war started as described in his post above? After all, you are included in his statement that the "people outside of the U.S. share this perception.

5)Yes, when I see Bush on the tv, this is what comes across in my mind, I don't see much substence in what he says or does.

6) Stoeckl said that the war is "big business" for certain companies. I asked him to name them He didn't. Can you?

6)You make billions from the oil, and thats why the oil fields were set alight in the first war, remember that. so just think of all the BIG oil companies you have there and there's your answer.

7) Stoeckl also claimed that we " helped to create new supporters of terrorism". I asked him to name those supporters or "groups". Again, he didn't. Can you?

7) I think that when someone helps the US during times like this I guess they know they will be helped by the US in other ways, I think that poor countries take this as a plus for themselves and hope that they will benifit from the US afterwards, I don't believe that people help you for the right reasons all the time.

8) He claims we made the world a more dangerous place. Do you agree and if so, how is it more dangerous and on what source of information do you base your answers?

8) Well George Bush said recently that carbon released into the air does not do any harm, this is one reason that he cannot be trusted, and on top of that, does he really think that this makes him look good or look stupid. This was something that shows he is not concerned with the plannet, and if he doesn't care about the plannet at all then I guess he doesn't care about people either so busness is good and screw everyone else as long as the US can make bigger and bigger money, and more polution.
This answer is from the news papers and tv.

9) You claimed that the U.S. was the reason for the UK's recession, lack of work, and alot of citizens losing their livelyhoods. Could you explain exactly how and why the U.S. is responsible for that?

9)When the first war hit, the recession was immediate, yes we were involved to. ships stopped delivering to the UK, planes, no one felt safe doing any sort of business outside the country so many people lost their jobs. oil prices rose and we already had huge prices compared to yours, people couldnt afford to spend. as ive said, the US affects alot of countries in the world, your decisions affect more over here than you know.

10) You never gave a clear answer to my question. What would you consider the lesser of two evils? a) Bush lied about going to war(not my opinion), or b) Saddam stays in power and continues to terrorize his own people with the atrocities he and his sons enjoy performing?

10) Im glad sadam is out, but your CIA and government hides alot of nasty things from your eyes. No the reason for war is still not clear in my mind. why didn't you go to Afrika and stop all the killing and blood shed there, I think this is because you have no monatary gains to be had over there. If you just wanted sadam out, then im sure the CIA could have sent someone in, a small group to take him out, so why all the build up, you told sadam basically to go and hide, why, if you wanted him out it could have been done without making it known to the world, this seems to make it look like something else in my eyes.

Now, get writing everyone, im waiting for the childish remarks that dominate this forum, and I expect nothing more.

steve

1) Fair enough. You don't know.

2) Cop out! You know as well as we do that N. Korea doesn't travel outside of N. Korea, the way Al Qeda and other Middle Eastern terrorists do to kill innocent people. There's nothing stopping you from acknowledging the obvious here. Your anti-American mentality is to blame.

3) "Saddam needed to be put out". How would you have done it? Answer the question!

4)Again, you say "Saddam needed to be put out". In other words, you agree that that particular "pig" (Saddam) needed to be "slaughtered". And, since you know nothing about N. Korea, you should have no problem answering the question. But, of course your anti-American mentality prevents you from, once again, acknowledging the obvious.

5)You say that "Saddam needed to be put out". Why would you say that. What are YOUR reasons? Do you think that Bush had reasons, or will cowardice and your anti-American mentality prevent you from acknowledging that Bush didn't remove Saddam based on a whim?

6)Cop out! You completely evaded the question, and there is no evidence whatsoever that we are in Iraq for oil. Only anti-American would make this claim without a shred of proof. Shame on you Steve!

7) Answer the question Steve! Name someone new.

8) Cop out! The issue is terrorism, not pollution. You are extremely evasive, and anti-American.

9)Was it a priority to kick Saddam out of Kuwait in your eyes? And, if you cite Desert Storm as the cause for your poor economy, why would you blame America and not Saddam? I'll tell you why, you are anti-American.

10) You've evaded the question yet again. Even though you say Saddam needed to be put out", you can't answer a simple question honestly for fear that you would say something positive about Americans.

Steve, thank you for illustrating how you consistently struggle NOT to agree with Americans. You have some serious problems, but you are still somewhat entertaining. KEEP THOSE BLINDERS ON!

Devin P.

Anti American again is it, did you agree with Clinton cheating on his wife, and if not then you are a hypochrite and an anti American yourself for not standing behind him.

steve

I don't agree with Clinton's actions and neither do most Americans. You see, if Americans don't like the president, we have the power to vote someone else into office. That's just what we did. That's the American way, not the Anti-American way.

I understand, but im getting tired of devins anti American comments all the time.

steve

By the way, I still haven't found out what you do for a living. You asked me a few times below and I answered that question in detail. You never answered as to why you asked that question or to what you do for a living.

Your attempt at comedy is as lame as your ability (lack of) to argue. Don't quit your day job, if you have one.

Devin P.

Actually, I didn't care one way or the other if Billy Boy cheated on Hillary, and you are grasping for straws here, and good luck trying to make me anti-American. instead, why don't you try to explain how you've said the things you've said, yet you are not anti-American. I think we could have some fun with that. Don't change the subject now Steve. that would be running away.

Devin P.

The only replies you ever have is "Anti American"

Thanks again

steve

That's the way we respond to anti-Americans. My response to couldn't possibly have anything to do with your anti-American comments, could it? Doy!

Devin P.

Thank you! No childish remarks here. But I would like to discuss your answers. Let's review...

1)Don't know. Fair enough, thanks for the honesty.
2)Don't know. Again, fair enough and thanks.
3)You agreed Saddam needed to be put away. Thank you!
4)Don't know.
5)You answered yes. You agree with Stoeckl's rendition. Oooh, that's gonna' leave a mark. That means that you agree with Stoeckl that not only did Bush single handedly decide to go to war on the spur of the moment for NO REASON AT ALL, but an arch-angel told him to do it. Also that Bush "closed his eyes and pointed to a random spot on the world map and that's how he decided to make Iraq his target for war, lol. Sorry, I just think that one is funny. Stoeckl outdid himself with that post.
Stoeckl says it was "out of the blue" and "out of nothing". I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in saying that you probably don't really agree with Stoeckl here. Maybe I'm wrong. Whatever.
6)So your saying that we told Saddam to set the oil fields on fire to make our oil companies richer? Come on Steve. You can do better than that.
7)Your answer here has nothing to do with the question, but I'm so friggin' happy that someone here has the coconuts to finally take a stab at answering my questions, I don't care, lol.
8)Again this answer is not related to the question.
9)Fair enough. I agree that the war affects economies elsewhere, but to solely blame us for that is absurd. You stated that no one felt safe doing business outside the country. That's not our fault. We didn't stop you from doing business outside your country, that was your choice.
10)Once again, you've completely failed to answer this question. What is so difficult about say one or the other? Just pick one of the choices I gave you. In not picking one of those choices, you are NOT answering the question! Please pick one!

Devin does make some excellent points. One in particular that slipped by me. You agreed that Saddam needed to go, but you don't agree with how we did it. How would you have done it?

I said in the last post that it could have been undercover, and without anouncing it. sadam knew he needed to hide before you got there, it would have been easier and smarter to take him out with an undercover swat team.

Devin, I expected your replies and as I said before I expect nothing more from you than what you have said. and again you are jumping on someone els's back and riding on their coat tails.

steve

That would have been an impossible task. How do you suppose we could have gotten a "swat team" close enough to Saddam to take him out. Do you think a "swat team" could get by our own presidents secret service? Of course not. Realistically speaking, the military are the only ones capable of doing what we did. Besides, do you know of any swat teams that could blend in with the Arabs, lol.

Well im sure they have the capability to get anywhere in the world that they want to, yes blending might have been a problem but I still think something like this could have been used.

steve

Okay, what would have been your first step in getting a team to infiltrate Iraq without being suspect? Do you think we could just drop a few guys in Saddam's back yard? Saddam doesn't even let many people in his own military get near him. Also he spends most of his time in hiding as he knows he's a marked man. No "covert" operation would have worked!

Steve interested in pesky little details like those. You know the details that get people killed if they are ignored. General Steve to the rescue!

Devin P.

Swat team! Ha Ha Ha! We should have put you in charge! You are obviously a military genius! But really Steve, your suggestions show how childish you can be. More like cartoonish. You just witnessed what it actually takes to get to Saddam, and the effort was, since you haven't noticed, much, much more involved then a "SWAT TEAM". Stoeckl says, he's a cop, why didn't you suggest sending him in to do the job? Give us a break Mr anti-American!

Devin P.

You get more delirious as you go. Your suggestion to take Saddam out is as brilliant as bringing a knife to a gun fight. You should be ashamed of yourself for spouting off like a fool criticizing those who have a clue (ie Bush). You've lost your marbles.

Devin P.

"I said in the last post that it could have been undercover, and without anouncing it. sadam knew he needed to hide before you got there, it would have been easier and smarter to take him out with an undercover swat team."

Well apparently the top military experts in the world disagreed with you. You really don't pretend to know what would have been "easier ans smarter" than these guys do you? Be careful Steve, you could look really, really stupid answering this question the wrong way!

Devin P.

Devin P.

Well you've managed to look that way alread

The only reason that YOU ask question is so you can play games, there really isn't much more I see in your words.

steve

unless you would rather cop out again. Do you or do you not think that you are smarter that the world leaders and military experts who figured out a plan, in record time, to remove Saddam? What's your answer Steve?

Devin P.

I don't believe my post to you was childish. I presented that post in a way that I thought would be suitable for you to respond without animosity. I understand if you don't know the answer to all of them as I suspected you wouldn't. Perhaps you could take a stab at the ones you do know. Just post the number of the question with your answer so I'll know which question to reference. I took the time to compose that post to what I thought would be satisfactory to you. The least you can do is TRY your best to answer those questions. Devin didn't ask those questions, I did. So please don't use Devin as an excuse to avoid the post I submitted for your approval. Wouldn't you agree that my post was civil and fair? Just do your best. Since no one else ever answers my questions and since you so dilligently seem to want to participate, I thought at least you would have the courage(unlike the others) to respond with specific points. Once again, thanks in advance for your participation!

I expect the same conduct from you.

steve

I am conducting myself in a manner in which we can engage in a normal conversation here as you wish. So let's do this. What are your thoughts on my questions?

I have posted answers already to your questions, please check them out.

steve

Here's yet another chance for you to show us what you've got. Show us that you are capable of something other than your trademark one-liner posts accusing Americans of rudeness. We know you can do it! The floor is yours, don't blow it again. if you don't take a stab at answering the questions then we'll continue to treat you like a child who is capable only of petty name calling. We'd like to see you grow up a little bit here and discuss the heart of the matter. Scotty's questions present a perfect format to debate your favorite subject: the conduct of Americans. Care to join us in a discussion of specific issues, or would you rather evade the issues, yet again, with your typical accusations of rudeness?

Devin P.

You give childish remarks all the time, yes you.

you name call, and it seems that you have nothing better to do than jump in on someone els's posts. are you capable of making your own posts.

steve