Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We had some wonky weather and had a power outage... ong story short our male pied got an URI. We took him to the vet about 2 weeks ago and got a round of antibiotics for him (Baytril every 72 hours for 6 doses given intravenously.) Yesterday was the last day and the poor guy still has a wheeze. We are taking him back tomorrow for a follow up and probably more meds.. anyone know of something that works better than Baytril for URIs? I read somewhere that ammikan (sp) should work. Thoughts?

I also found this remedy : http://bamboozoo.weebly.com/snake--respiratory-remedy.html

Anyone have experience with that remedy and or a suggestion for a better antibiotic. I kind of slapped my forehead when he prescribed Baytril... seems overused and doesn't always seem to work.

Did you also raise the temps to help fight off the infection? 95 degrees should help in addition to the meds.

Yes we boosted the temperature as well, seems to be a stubborn one.

I believe you mean baytril given "intramuscular".

The best way to find out which antibiotic to use is to acquire a sample for culture and sensitivity from the inside of the snake's glottis(opening of the air way). The lab can grow the bacteria and find the right antibiotic for you to use. Your vet should be able to do this. Best of luck.
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Oops I typed "intravenous" and thought hmmm that doesn't seem right, but intramuscular was on the tip of my tongue.

I'll have to ask about a culture, not many people around here see reptiles, and I know this vet has just a handful of herp clients, I'm not sure whether he was just prescribing whatever came to mind first.

We'll take him in tomorrow and keep you guys posted!

I had a burm develop an RI a couple years ago. Went to the vet and she prescribed antibiotics I had to give intramuscularly every 4 days. I believe there were 6 or 7 injections total. We boosted the temps and got him a humidifier that we put right next to his tank and he recovered very quickly. I don't remember the name of the antibiotics but I may be able to call my vet and find out what they gave me if you're interested. They should still have that on record right? It was about 4 years ago now that I think of it.

If you think of it I would be interested in finding out what it was if it worked! I'll ask them to swab it tomorrow to see what we're dealing with, and go from there.

Thank you for your response!

They are closed for the night now but I will call them tomorrow and see if they can tell me exactly what it was. It was just one shot every 4 days and by the time he was done with them he was completely back to normal I don't think it was baytril, I would have remembered that.

Baytril is also known as "Enrofloxin"
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Susan Sentman
SSNAKES Reptiles
susan@ssnakes.com

Actually, it's "Enrofloxacin," but that's neithere here nor there.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

I had purchases a group of balls a few years ago from a breeder and the animals broke out with a ri that was a nightmare. After having no success with injections my vet and I agreed to try giving them a neb treatment of baytril and saline solution. This takes the meds to the lungs and we had great success.

That's kind of what happened here, we had this fellow shipped when it was still chilly (lesson learned). Forgive my ignorance but what is a neb treatment?

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Neb is short for nebulizer. A neb treatment is a treatment that humans use for sever asmah attacks. It is a machine that has a small area where you can put a liquid medicine in and then it pumps air into it and makes a mist which is then inhaled. People who have neb machines normally get their insurance to cover them so when they get a new one the old machines are normally sold dirt cheep or tossed. I know that this method is also used in birds and is nice because treatment doesn't stress out the animal.

Matt

Have a swab done to find out exactly what the problem is and the proper medication for it. Vets that don't know what they are doing tend to go for Baytril as a cure all for reptile illness but it's really not. You'll want to keep up the meds even after your snake appears to recover.

Good luck.
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Tosha

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

I agree with Tosha on the culture to find the correct diagnosis and correct meds, however that is expensive and not everyone can afford to go that way.

I have had regular success with Baytril for everything from URI to prolapse using it every 24 hours to start with for 3-5 days. Then I back up to every 48 hours for 6 more days and then on to every 4 days for a total of 10-20 days. I am fortunate enough to have a vet who knows I am a breeder and he will order Baytil for me. Incidently, if you use the large animal Baytril (for cattle,100mg/kg)) the dosage is less and hurts less.
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Susan Sentman
SSNAKES Reptiles
susan@ssnakes.com

Sorry but I have to put this in perspective. What good are you doing if the bacteria causing the RI is resistant to Baytril? Not all bacteria is killed with Baytril. As Tosha has quoted Scott Stahl "veterinary medicine doesn't equal a bottle of Baytril".

If you can afford a pied ball python you can afford to take care of it properly with proper veterinary care if needed.

Treat smart and proper. Have a culture and sensitivity from the inside of the glottis done.
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

I agree with above comment. Baytril is being overused now and all we are doing is creating more baytril resistant strains. It's not a cure all. the best option is really to get the culture sent off to the lab where you can find out exactly which medicine works best. trying to treat yourself can lead to much more money later on. I had a friend who tried treating an issue himself and it ended up being over $800 by the time all was said and done because he kept trying to treat it himself.
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1.0 firefly(pos het pied) 1.0 enchi 1.0 super reduced clown 0.1 bumblebee 0.1 mojave 0.1 butter pastel 0.1 spotnose 0.1 pewter 0.1 pastel 0.1 pied 0.1 het pied 0.1 vanilla 0.3 het clown 0.7 normals

I stand corrected......you are right Alan.
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Susan Sentman
SSNAKES Reptiles
susan@ssnakes.com

There really is no such thing as a "stronger" antibiotic. Your snake's respiratory infections is caused by a type of bacteria, and that bacteria may be gram-positive or gram-negative or something else. Each antibiotic is made specifically for a type of bacteria. Baytril is relatively broad spectrum, but not fool-proof, meaning there are still types of bacteria that are resistant to it. Even so, Baytril is actually becoming an "older" way of thinking when treating reptiles for infection. The vets at my hospital (I am a vet-tech) do not jump straight to Baytril anymore for snakes, mostly due to side-effects such as injection site necrosis resistance and resistance due to over-use in the reptile world. Fortaz/Ceftazidime tends to be the more "modern" drug of choice.

Amikacin is something you have to cautiously use in reptiles because your animals must be VERY hydrated in order to withstand the drugs... A non-eating animal is usually not a good candidate for Amikacin.

What someone mentioned earlier is the way to go: doing a culture or lung wash, sending the sample out to a lab, and seeing what kind of bacteria it yield, and what meds it is sensitive to (rather than resistant to) is the way to go. It's not necessarily a matter of finding a "stronger" drug, but the "right" drug... If that makes sense!

It's common practice to medicate broad spectrum first rather than doing a culture in the first place, so don't be ma at your vet. We always recommend it to clients, but most financially conscious people turn down the recommended culture, and go for conservative treatment: they would rather try broad-spectrum meds first, with the understanding a culture will be needed if the patient doesn't improve. This is where you are at now!

Hope this helps!
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

You made some very good points.

I totally agree!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Sorry, I just looked at your link. I have never tried this home remedy, but I understand the thought process. I've had to nebulize rescues in the past. Without a nebulizer the best way is to but your snake in the bathroom with you and shut the door when you take a hot shower. It's the same thought process of breaking up congestion in kids. I've never tried it the way the link has said, but it makes sense. *shrug*
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Thank you for all your replies/suggestions. I do want to clarify that I am not looking to home treat solely. I am looking for anything we can do IN ADDITION to the vet care. I was thinking along the lines of when a child has croup you steam them to help with the symptoms, maybe this would work to help improve the effectiveness of the antibiotic, or at least make the snake more comfortable.

I also want to clarify that I was not upset with the vet for prescribing Baytril first off, but I am familiar with the belief that it is a magic fix it elixir, and is often overprescribed, lessening it's effectiveness. I just wasn't impressed with their services, we have been there once before and had crappy service then too.

I am NOW however slightly frustrated with our vet. My husband took him back in this afternoon. They refused to do a culture as they say they don't do them for reptiles (really?), and prescribed Baytril again... (11.4 mg/ml orally .66 cc 1x a day) along with an enegy supplement to help him keep weight on (2x a day) which all together seems like it would do more harm then good as it's 3 forcefeeding/dropper feedings a day, maybe I'm wrong but that seems like a LOT of additional stress on an already compromised animal. They are the only reptile vet within 100 miles so our choices are limited, I think I'll be hitting the phonebook to see if I can't find someone to do a culture.

Baytril is a enrofloxin there is a new generation of this out I used it on mine just resently and cleared it right up becareful with baytril injections in time they can form abscesses do a culture on the snake at the vet to see what bacteria you are dealing with if it's puedomonas it's a strong and bad bacteria and can take some time to get gone also try raising the heat up about 5 degrees it helps they snake immunity and try doing baytril or the new generation with a pill form just crush pill add water the snake can matabalize the medicine better with out any abbesses hope thus helps good luck

I haven't read this entire thread but I can tell you what I do that works great. Pop that bad boy in the incubater for 1 week. Pull him out give him fresh water see how he is after a day or two. If it's bad he may need to go in there for another week. Leave the incubator at 88 just like you were incubating eggs. Kurt Decker turned me onto this and it has worked miracles for me, infact I don't use meds anymore! If you don't ensure his environment outside the incubator has inproved nothing is going to work including meds. Good luck...
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John Light
JPLReptiles@gmail.com
(954) 903-8061

Please excuse the spelling! I was a little quick on the trigger there...
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John Light
JPLReptiles@gmail.com
(954) 903-8061