Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just got a huge shipment of animals from Dave (rainbows-r-us) yesterday! 12 or 13, I forgot all ready. Some amazing animals including but not limited to;

1.1 Anery, bringing my total to 2.1
1.0 EBV Hypos, bringing my total to 2.2 visuals and 0.6 hets
A Zebra phase, pearl phase, lateral strips and whatever you’d call this little guy…

Amazing animals Dave, it’s always a pleasure working with you!!!

This just brought my count up to 42 BRBs, 2 Southern White lips, 4 Rings and 5 Chondros

First, congrats on the new additions, that odd one you posted shots of is very cool looking!

Secondly though, and I'm asking this only because I'm trying to learn here... but noticing the hypo group that you have, it appears you are doing a visual hypo to visual hypo breeding instead of visual to a het? My reason for asking about it is I've heard several times that doing that wasn't a good idea, something about the babies from a visual/visual breeding not being very strong and having trouble getting started? Again, I'm only asking because I'm trying to get a grasp on it myself as to what's safe and what's not, or earlier on was the hypo line weak and now it's been outcrossed enough that it's safer to breed visuals together?

Thanks!
Charlie

Already answered by others but here's my $0.02

The original Lockwood line (EBV) did have problems with regurge and many breeders still have that original cautious nature when dealing with Hypo's and Hets. Yes, lots of outcrossing has been and continues to be done. The end result being much stronger animals. Of course there are still individuals being produced from lesser outcrossed stock so you still need to be observant on how individual specimens are doing.

I don't personally know if outcrossing has progressed to the point where visuals can safely be paired yet.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Well for one thing, you can feel more than welcome to give me your $0.02 any day, you've been a great source of knowledge to me since I first contacted you about getting an animal from you and to me you're thoughts are worth a lot more than $0.02!

If you didn't make the connection, I'm the guy in Tennessee that picked up a het hypo male from you several months ago and have bugged you a couple of times since then for some input from someone more experienced. That little male btw is doing great and growing like a weed, getting close to 4' long and about 500 grams now, so I've got my fingers crossed that by this next coming season he'll be able to pair up with the female I have and I'll get to see some hypo babies born here. She will no doubt still be much larger than him, but I've got one colombian rainbow male that's on the small side and it doesn't stop him from being a great little breeder. I do know that she has never been given any special treatment and hasn't had problems with regurging or growing (she's about 5 1/2'...don't have a weight, but she's good average healthy girth sized I'd say) so hopefully when they do pair up I would think they will give me some offspring as healthy and problem free as I could expect.

Very cool about the visual visual anery pairing congrats on that litter! Nice to know that the Sharp line seems to be a strong line of animals that I shouldn't have to have any extra concern with!

Thanks again everyone for helping me getting a better understanding of all this!
Charlie

Hey Charlie, glad you connected the dots for me and really glad to hear my baby is doing well!!!

Welcome to the "active" side of the forum!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for the help, but I guess where I'm looking at it, unless I'm just having a blonde moment and missing something, is where it says something like "total group 2.2 visuals, 0.6 hets"...with two visual females and no het males, that means that there would be two visual/visual pairings since there is no het male? Then again, I could be assuming way too much and the plans for the visual females might be something totally different anyways, in which case I'm just causing confusion for no reason (sorry!).

I do appreciate the info about the hypo's as I hope to be producing them next season. Are the babies problematic feeders, or just need to be fed smaller items and given plenty of time between feedings to digest?

While I'm asking, is there anything similiar to this I should know about with the Sharp line of anerys?

Thanks!
Charlie

Charlie,

Some great questions you are bringing up. I do apologize for any confusion. I have my father visiting for a few days and I was trying to get that post out fast as to not be overly rude by being on the computer all day.
Cliff is right about the more common EBV hypo line. I think that this gene has been sufficiently out crossed to circumvent the regurgitation problem. I have a decent amount of EBV hypos and hets and I feed them just like any other rainbow in my collection. The less common DB hypo line was not sufficiently out crossed and does have problems. I am also working with this bloodline as well, I have 1.2 DB hets and 0.1 visual. These are all adults and I can’t feed them more than a mouse every few days or they will regurgitate. I am trying to get one visual hypo from this line and then I will outcross to strong normal BRBs.

As for my EBV group that I was talking about in this post, I plan to use my 2 visual females to create more complex animals such as the ghost (hypo X anery). At this time I don’t want to talk too much about others crosses but the ghost is obvious.

The Sharp line anery is fine. I have never heard of any problems nor have I had problems with my Sharp line anerys.

Hope that answers your questions and always feel free to ask, there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this forum.

Here is an older picture to enjoy. Shot of
1) Pebbles and Skittle
2) my son holding Pebbles
3) my son holding Twilight

Thank you for your time, John Wiseman

Well to start off...I hope you have a great visit from your father. It's also nice seeing pics of the younger generations with interest in the hobby and smiling so big while holding these animals! I had a friend asking me about brb's and temperment, along with how they would be with kids (which I explained to her they can be nippy when young, make great pets with being held much and it's as much also about teaching kids how to hold them), I may have to make sure she see's those pictures.

Anyways, back on topic...

You have nothing to apologize for about my confusion. It's just my current lack of knowledge and kind of reading too litterally into something, which made me wonder if you were pairing up visual hypo's. I was also just trying to get a better understanding for myself about the issues with doing that breeding since I've only heard it touched on a little bit a couple of times and really didn't have much of a grasp on it other than having heard "don't do it" pretty much. I may have heard it a little more than that (actually Dave, you may have told me more) but it was fuzzy in my head and I was wanting a little more clarity and understanding on the subject...which btw, thank you all of you guy's who have helped answer my questions, I very much appreciate it.

This seems like a pretty friendly forum, I may have to quit lurking so much and speak up or share more in the future!

Charlie

Again, my $0.02
IMO yes you should start out a little cautious until you know how your offspring are doing. Ultimate results will tell you if your pairing is good and can be re-paired in the future.

I have Sharp line Anery BRB's and even produced the first (and afaik the only ever) litter of visual x visual = all visual and every baby did just fine.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Hey John, glad to work with you on probably the most diverse single group of BRB's I've ever shipped at one time. Lots of great animals in there.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Very nice, and congrats!! How did you get that lateral stripe from Dave? I thought that one was a holdback.
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Aubrey,

Dave will have to confirm but I think they where the animals that were sold to Ralph Tran (maybe spelled incorrectly, I did not know him personally). When Mr. Tran left the country he sold his collection off and the 1.1 "partially" lateral striped animals went back to Dave. I think that Dave is trying to make room for his pin-striped/candy-striped project and was sell off some animals. I think I was just in the right place and the right time.

I will post some pics as soon as everything is eating well for me and sheds out.

John

Yup, John caught me at a weak moment and flashed a HUGE wad of cash at me.

And yeah, the Candy stripe project has me committing a lot of resources that needed to be pulled from other projects. A little trim here, a little trim there.

Still have a couple more to trim, Ursula and Madea are slated to be sold.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Ah yes, I remember Mr. Tran. Dave, I don't remember which ones Ursula and Madea are... pictures?
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Ursula...

Madea...

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Very pretty!! Thanks for the pics!
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Aubrey Ross

www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Are these the off spring from my eclipsed phased, Twilight?

Yup, two of them, I picked out one to keep.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Hey Cliff, I think you misread the other post (plus I have a little insider info) The male in question is approaching 2 years old. 500 grams at one year old and I'd be posting a whole different response.

I took Charlie's reply as hoping he'd be being ready for the coming season (2013) BY which time he will have grown even more
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks Dave, I think you've got a good understanding on what I'd meant. I realized I may not have explained things very well before and just posted again laying out the timeline for when I hope to begin breeding him a little better...hope it makes more sense and you all can let me know if that sounds like I have reasonable expectations or not.

Charlie

No offense taken at all!

He is actually a 2010 baby from Dave's MI-DU litter, other than that I can't give you his closer age unless Dave happens to have it handy. (I'm not home right now where I an check his card)

Just to make sure we're on the same page for when I'm expecting anything from him (especially if it sounded like I plan to start breeding him in the next few months), the hypo female that I have plans to pair him up with is currently gravid, she ovulated april 4th. Assuming she stays on close to the same schedule, he should still have another 8 months of growing between now and when I would start trying to put them together, which the way he's growing I won't be surprised for him to be double his current size by then. There is also the chance too, that she may need next year off and I won't even be trying to breed them this coming spring, although she's still feeding decently right now, so if she keeps that up it'll help and hopefully she'll recover quickly from giving birth. So anyways, this pairing will need to be evaluated again in 6-8 months from now based on each of them.

Thoughts?

Sorry about hijacking this whole thread so I can get edjucated about these animals some more...I should probably try to put up a few pics and start a new thread to give you an idea of what I'm working with and where I'm at in case that might give you any other idea's/suggestions you could make...maybe I'll do that this weekend sometime.

Thanks!
Charlie

I finally come out of lurking and in just a couple of days I think I managed to confuse half the people posting in here...oops, sorry!! lol

Charlie