Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Finally got my breading population up. I keep three females with one male in one container. When I see that one female is about to pop, I separate the two other females so they don't eat the babies. Any subjections on how to keep the ratio of mice per the number of snake. I know most of y'all have a lot of snakes, I have 6 snakes. Don't want to end up with to many mice or not enough. Sort of a juggling act for me right now.

DAVY

Seems to me your making that about is difficult and complicated as you can.

For six snakes, you sure have a lot of cages, which equal a lot of work.

ALso, mice do not eat eachothers babies, they nurse eachothers babies. If they do consume the others babies, then your doing something very wrong.

In most cases, its about lack of water, lack of food, or wrong temps altogether.

You should consider what your doing, your producing feeder mice. Not LAB mice.

I would recomend, a group cage of 2.10 or 2.12, then a raiseup cage for the weaned mice to grow up in. Maybe two group cages, then you would have lots of mice to freeze or trade for food. The main reason for two groups is, keep them at different ages, so you can replace each group at 6 or 7 months of age. That way, your mice don't all retire at the same time.

Consider, that would require THREE cages, so only three water bottles, three food trays to contend with. Three cages to clean, instead of How many you have there? Cheers

ARE YOU SERIOUS. Dangit, I was miss informed. Some one told me that other moms would eat other babies. and to keep them in 3 F to 1 M. becouse the males would fight if you had more than one. I had them in bigger cages to sta=rt with hyou can see them in the back ground. dangit. I spent to much money hope my wife don't see this she will kick my a$$.
So, let me start by asking this. What does 2.10 and 2.12 Mean?
Also, you can have multipal litters in one cage?
any other info would be greatful.

dangit,DAVY

Well the numbers 2.5 etc are like snakes...the first number represents males and the second number represents females.

On my larger containers I run 1.6 on mice and on my smaller containers I have 1.4.

I NEVER separate the colony. All the nursing females will help nurse all the babies.

I do keep my mouse colonies for a year before starting new ones. Of course I am always starting new ones every month.

There are a lot of misnomers about rodent breeding, from bedding to diet, etc..

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Davy I use groups of 1.6 mice like Kerby mentioned also. A container with the floor space of about a 10 gallon aquarium is a good size for 1.6 groups. If you are using smaller sized cages, groups of 1.3 will work fine also.
Something interesting to mention. Over the years I have held back MANY young mice to rotate in as new breeders. Of all the mice I held back to breed I have never had a male in a group of 1.6 that didn't breed and reproduce well. I have heard of some people using more than one male to be sure they have a fertile male but I haven't ever seen one that wasn't.
I don't ever seperate pregnant females out of their group either. . Females eating their young happens so seldom with mice that it's not worth the effort of seperating them. As someone else mentioned, other females in the group will help care for other females babies. You will often have 3 or 4 litters that were born at different times being kept in a large mass in one corner of the cage and being cared for by all the mothers together.
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Randy Whittington

Hi Randy, I too have not had a problem with single males. But we also do not have problems with more then one male.

We raise groups in a 3.45 ratio. Then as soon as females become pregnant, we set them up in groups of 1.7 or 1.10

At this time we are producing a small amount, about 6000 mice a week, and yes, that is really small.

A few days ago, I had another coopers incident, Anyway, I did not get a very good picture, but I did get it good enough to see that it was banded. I say, incident because it was down in a hole and kept going back, got me, I have a hard enough time with reptiles, muchless trying to figure out birds. Cheers

What's the story with a Cooper's in a whole? That sounds interesting. Did you loose any flesh in the process? lol
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Randy Whittington

Wow that is a big operation there.

Thanks makes me fell alittle better now. lol

Thanks

You can do as the others are saying. What usually causes all the problems are more than one male per enclosure, over-crowding, not enough quality food, dirty conditions, too warm, lack of water, etc...

When any of these get out of balance, they become very stressed and they naturally begin to cull themselves to seek a better balance for their given circumstances.

I've never kept more than one male in a breeder bin though for very long because I have encountered fighting for dominance too often. But the other females will help nurse the babies and many become "synchronized" with their babies and of course lactating. They don't seem to mind helping each other out with feeding at all.

They breed better and rear more young in cooler conditions as well, and each adult mouse radiates some ridiculous amout of heat like 1.5 BTU's (British Thermal Units) as I seem to recall.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

As was mentioned, a bigger bin for weaned mice is VERY important if they aren't immediately fed-off!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>You can do as the others are saying. What usually causes all the problems are more than one male per enclosure, over-crowding, not enough quality food, dirty conditions, too warm, lack of water, etc...

I do pretty good with all of that except the temps. what is to high of a temp. I keep them in the garage and it get probable in the 90's. I have not checked it during the day. I have not had a problem yet they tend to get 'with child' before they wended off the last litter.

DAVY

Davy, many times when your first setting up a breeding group, you may get some that eat their own babies even. It's too much trouble to try to take out the offending mice, to salvage the remainders. I suggest you scrap any group that eats their babies. Keep your line from the ones that don't eat their babies. Also Food and water must always be present1 Never let them go one day without food. Early on I had problems with babies being eaten, but it's been a long time since I had any problems with that. I keep one male to six females in tubs. I mark them with a date sticker, and feed them off within 6 months to get the most production.

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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Jorge, where do you get those bottle cap tops that go on soda bottles!
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

>>Jorge, where do you get those bottle cap tops that go on soda bottles!
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>>Bob
>>Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
>>Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Bob I got them years ago at Valentine inc. I think I sent you the link before. It's the same place I got the 1/3 inch hardware cloth. They changed their name since then, but if you search for it, you should be able to find a link. I don't know if they still sell the drinking tubes, and the stoppers. I had to order in quantity, and they come separate. You can probably call them and they will help you out. I think they had different stopper sizes, as well as tube lengths and styles.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Jorge. Thanks! I found them; they call themselves ANIMAL STUFF,LLC.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Don't know if they still carry those?
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Thanks for the info. Nice set up.
DAVY

>>Thanks for the info. Nice set up.
>>DAVY

Yeah, if a tub, or group has eaten the babies, most likely all of them have tasted blood, and should be scrapped. Also I feed them off 6 months from their first litter, not 6 months of age. Seems to keep them at maximum production.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

I did somethinng similar to that recently... I used large sterlite tubs to cut down on the smell. Indoors... I do agree with these guys seems like a lot of work. I know trust me. If its outdoors I would definatley switch to a rack. Its impossible to tell how many per snake you will need. U can't count your eggs before they hatch... I would shoo.ot for haveing more than you need. Better to have more than not enough. My females eat like crazy so I just gave them the access.

The more the better. Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them. You can always freeze your overage.

You can count on the breeding to slow or come to a screaching halt once the temps rise in that garage. Unless it is AC of course. I have been told that they don't breed well in the summer period. I did experience this myself.

My rodent room gets into the high 80's and sometimes into the low 90's during the summer time and no problems. During the winter time the temps have went as low as 48. They (mice) do slow down during the winter time, but heat does not slow them down.

When I was breeding rats neither the heat nor the cold slowed them down.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

I also get my slowdown in the winter. I keep all of mine in the basement. Winter temps are around 50-55. Right now the temps are around 65-70

No a/c, I'm sure it's in the 90's somewhere. I'll check the temps in a few day's. don't seem to have a problem breeding though. not yet.
DAVY

Those little critter keeper cages are very easy for the mice to gnaw their way out the top. The only thing I use them for is transporting mice to customers.

Mice take about a month to produce a weanling. Average ten per litter, more if you have prolific stock. At two months they are pretty much full grown. Breeders go strong for about 8 months, but one can tell they are slowing down when lactation begins to decrease and the young begin to look runty. Some go longer than 8 months, it depends on the genes. I have a venerable old chocolate brown long hair male that in mouse years is in his 90's but is still siring robust litters. Also when a female gets really old she oft times just gets real fat and looks pregnant but no young happen. My bull snakes love those!

A 106 quart grow-out tub for weanlings, or for big harems. I also use 58 quart and 20 quart tubs, all with the same cut out lid with hardware cloth cover. Every tub gets an exercise wheel. They don't really need the wheel but they enjoy it so much, and it keeps them fit and relieves stress.

The summer screen tent. They all go into an old RV in the winter, with the tubs setting on shelving. Not quite a rack system, as they still have the lids on. They produce so much body heat they don't need any extra heat in the winter. My mice breed prolifically all year round and I sell my surplus to cover feed and bedding costs. I freeze some and sell live as well. I breed for color and now have a strong line of what I call dear mice; grey on top and white bellies. This works for the raptor rescue as the birds need mice that look like wild mice. Also have long haired and other colors, and have good longevity and big litters. Mice are fun! I admit my method my be a tad tedious to some. FR's rack system is awesome! Racks are great for limited space. I may do a rack set up but with the taller tubs so they can have their wheels.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Thanks for the info.

Who do you sell to? and how much? I might could do something like that If I develop a better system. Maybe to the pet store near by.

My critter keepers have the metal inserts with the plastic top above that.

DAVY

My critter keepers have the metal inserts with the plastic top above that.
That is sweet! Where did you get the metal inserts that fit the critter keepers?

I sell to fellow hobbyists who keep reptiles and to the local wildlife rescue, for their raptors and owls and such.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

I figured you might ask that. They came from a lab. I acquired some broke ones I had to repair from a friend, that has a friend, that knows someone, that works in a lab. Sorry I can't be more specific.

Thanks everybody. Great to see all the different ways, idea's, and do's and don'ts.

Maybe I will actually talk about snakes next time. LOL

Can you imagine what i'll be like when I start breading my snakes. LOL

DAVY